Train derailment in Port Richmond - Now

Discussion in 'Fishtown / Northern Liberties / Kensington / Port ' started by Litter Box, May 12, 2015.

  1. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    There are a lot of fail safes in place that would prevent that from happening, sadly those weren't enough this time.
     
  2. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    Yes, must not forget the 'fail-safes', now we just need something to prevent trains derailing.
     
  3. Litter Box

    Litter Box Well-Known Member

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    Looks like they are leaning toward human error. High speed and braking on a turn. The window had nothing to do with the crash. Ch 6 a little after 4:00.
     
  4. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    I called the 'braking on a turn' pages ago and was called a 'moron', while the speed was obvious, and those two don't mix well no matter the vehicle. It may or may not have rode out the turn at speed, but once the brakes were locked up forget it.

    Now for the windshield - reading excerpts just above they were a known problem.

    "The sources said the excessive speed of the train, combined with the force of the brakes, led to the derailment."
     
  5. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    Didn't I read something that said two other trains reported broken windows in the same vicinity that day? A SEPTA train and an Acela? Maybe something like a television was being kicked back and forth between the trains.

    As for the broken window, it might not have been the cause but it seems far to coincidental to be unrelated. I have no idea how a conductor "drives" a train, but it could have caused some commotion in the engine at exactly the worst time.
     
  6. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    I tried to share the Amtrak engineer's thread conversation above on the Sprinter's windshield, but on pasting the page link it's not clickable.

    They speak not just of projectiles, but also of night time interior cabin light glare, and also of distortion in seeing signals ahead. This implies the engineer couldn't see ahead correctly, negating his fault.

    coaststarlight99 Wrote:
    -------------------------------------------------------
    > It seems like a weird problem. The reason I say
    > that is because windshields are not a new
    > invention or a new part that is being used for the
    > first time. Windshields have been in locomotives
    > for how long now? How can a weird problem like
    > this happen? If they just use whatever glass is
    > being used in the P-42s, the Dash 8s, the SD70s,
    > etc, etc, etc, wouldn't that take care of the
    > issue? Or is it because of the angle?

    Probably because the angle looked "nice" on the outside. A surprisingly large amount of stuff gets designed and then line of sight and glare type issues are only considered much later. For example, signal designers drop new signal locations on a map and then when field staff goes out to look at the site to build it, they realize there is a bridge in the line of sight or a lack of preview of the signals due vegetation or other factors.


    [ Reply To This Message ] [ Quote ]
    [HR][/HR][HR][/HR]Date: 02/17/14 14:34
    Re: ACS-64 Sprinter Windshields A Major Safety Problem
    Author: bioyans[HR][/HR]
    abyler Wrote:
    -------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > Probably because the angle looked "nice" on the
    > outside. A surprisingly large amount of stuff
    > gets designed and then line of sight and glare
    > type issues are only considered much later.

    Such as the EMD SD70M-2 ... whose straight up and down windshield finds almost every interior light reflecting off the inside of it.
     
  7. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the House Committee's decision to cut Amtrak funding by 15% hours after the derailment. How the **** did that happen?
     
  8. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    Too many humans = expendable?
     
  9. Sailaway

    Sailaway Giggity Giggity Goo!

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    Amtrak = big waste?
     
  10. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    It's a reasonable question. It usually takes a few car accidents to improve an intersection, why did the opposite seem to happen with Train 188?
     
  11. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    They were already into replacing the second generation of windshields on the 70 new 2013 Sprinter locomotives due to glare and distortion issues, though this looks like it's first accident.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cities_Sprinter
     
    #161 zeolite, May 18, 2015
    Last edited: May 19, 2015
  12. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I'd imagine you would have eccentric forces at play when you are braking a long train with multiple cars on a curve similar to how a truck jacknifes. I'd also suspect that the momentum of each car could be come irregular to each other depending on where the train braked relative to the curve.
     
  13. carloss

    carloss Well-Known Member

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    Does I-95 turn a profit?
     
  14. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Yep, I linked that story in this thread on Sunday. :)

     
  15. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    Smack! Thank you for that.
     
  16. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    Yo DC! Yeah I thought it was a good point also, except on more thought with some baggage of course.

    Maybe the difference is that 95 riders aren't charged a toll, but do contribute to the ride via gas taxes, vehicle fees, etc on a roadway not intended to turn a profit. It's for the masses.

    OTH, Amtrak on a daily basis is more for the elite and meant to turn a profit, yet is still subsidized.
     
  17. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    clearly you have not ridden amtrak outside the northeast. The high prices in the northeast pay for middle of the night trains in Cleveland. Does it make sense? No, but does politics ever make sense? If uncle same wanted trains for the masses it would have them.
     
  18. Radical Ed

    Radical Ed Public Nuisance

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  19. Radical Ed

    Radical Ed Public Nuisance

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    How else are the Republicans (religious-right) going to blame it on the inefficiency of the Democrats?
     
  20. Sailaway

    Sailaway Giggity Giggity Goo!

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    Maybe, maybe not.

    But at least I-95 doesn't auto-cancel your reservations.
     
  21. Sailaway

    Sailaway Giggity Giggity Goo!

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    SMACK! Thank you for that!
     
  22. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    Back at ya mate
     
  23. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    What eldondre said. More of my tax dollars probably go to I-95 (the gas tax isn't the only thing that pays for roads) than I pay in train tickets every year, and I don't even have a car. And right now, I could buy an Amtrak ticket to Los Angeles for $446 while the cheapest ticket to New York is $119. It's not a profitable industry, it's a subsidy that gets distributed throughout a country that couldn't give two ****s about having it. If Congress wasn't to regionalize Amtrak, by all means. I'd rather tax dollars go to the NE corridor where Amtrak is actually used than burn oil across the midwest.
     
  24. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    You mention eldondre I can't read your post, nothing against you.
     
  25. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    He basically said that the high prices in the Northeast pay for ancillary traffic in the rest of the country. That Amtrak isn't profitable. At least that's how I read it.
     
  26. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    It's not so much that amtrak shouldn't run services elsewhere but the type of services they have to run. Texans may never ride the train but if they did it wouldn't be the three a week train to la it would be frequent service to satown or dallas. It's like that all over the country. The lack of investment and political service model must be supported by the nec. It might be more tenable if there was an nec in chicago land or the west coast to share the burden
     
  27. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Differences between ATC and PTC

    Newsworks has a good article explaining the differences between ATC and PTC. Keep in mind that the system that was already deployed on the southbound tracks around the Frankford curve and was added this weekend to the northbound side is the older ATC system. Full deployment of PTC, with its enhanced capabilities, must wait for thorough testing of the radio transponders, for which the radio frequencies were only recently acquired and approved by the FCC.

    Explainer: Positive Train Control and the Amtrak 188 derailment | Newsworks.org
     
  28. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    I missed el's civil post above, but it does make sense. We should be getting something back from these backwaters, maybe free corn, potatoes, or oil for instance lol.
     

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