Train derailment in Port Richmond - Now

Discussion in 'Fishtown / Northern Liberties / Kensington / Port ' started by Litter Box, May 12, 2015.

  1. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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  2. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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  3. Litter Box

    Litter Box Well-Known Member

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    The answer to whether or not the system was installed and working is a 100% maybe.
     
  4. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Another body recovered today; toll stands at 7 and expected to rise.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/live_chats/Live-coverage-Amtrak-crash-.html

     
  5. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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  6. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    it's a crude form but it does accomplish the same function. it does not qualify as PTC though afaik. it sounds like we will get the whole story eventually with the question of PTC (which I believe Amtrak is on track to meet the deadline) would have prevented it. it's worth remembering that in spain the crash occurred at a gap in the system
     
  7. Brian616

    Brian616 Well-Known Member

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  8. jslader

    jslader Well-Known Member

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    I've read that west of the curve (heading towards 30th street), the speed limit is 80mph on the inner tracks/70 mpg on the outer. Even if there isn't speed control at the curve, how did he get up to 100 mph before reaching it?

    Incidentally, east of the curve (towards NE Philly) the limit is 110mph inner tracks/90 mph outer tracks.
     
    #38 jslader, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  9. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Sources: train reportedly speeding. Engineer mum | Philadelphia Inquirer

     
  10. Brian616

    Brian616 Well-Known Member

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    My uneducated guess: the engineer forgot about the curve, and just ramped up speed after hitting North Philly.
     
  11. Moonraker

    Moonraker Rocket Scientist

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    From a former Conrail employee(locomotive division) - After the CR - AMTK wreck at Chase, MD on 1/4/87, Congress passed legislation that required what CR called Locomotive Speed Limiters. If the engineer exceeded the speed for that section of track or ignored a signal, the locomotive applied the brakes. All locomotives on or connecting to the NEC were required to have LSL. The LSLs had to be invented and then installed.

    Even the road switchers, GP-38s, that CR operated near the NEC needed them. Despite that, all mechanical and electric devices fail eventually.
     
  12. jslader

    jslader Well-Known Member

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    Read this morning that the speed protection stops.03 miles west of the curb, or about 13 seconds at track speed. Definitely plausible.
     
  13. thetalkingmule

    thetalkingmule Well-Known Member

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    Why would the speed protection stop just before the huge dangerous curve?
     
  14. jslader

    jslader Well-Known Member

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    That's what I hope the investigation will ultimately shed light on. Even more tragic,the southbound tracks apparently have the system in place already; only the northbound tracks needed to be upgraded, which was supposed to have happened by the end of this year.
     
  15. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    the old speed protection was in place for westbound trains which would have been travelling 110 or 125 mph. eastbound trains have a governing speed of 80 mph before the 50 mph curve. I cannot speak to how difficult the old system was to install but unlike PTC it is not a comprehensive system and was only installed in certain key locations. if all the facts so far reported are correct, then yes PTC (which is a comprehensive system) would have prevented this.
     
  16. cafeguy

    cafeguy Well-Known Member

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    I guess if they were going REALLY fast as well... that might explain how two other trains ended up with cracked windows from projectiles? rocks or debris being kicked up as a train is going faster than usual??
     
  17. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    Sounds like it, CNN is going with speed.

    In the end, the new locomotives have cameras all over them so the footage will tell all
     
  18. jslader

    jslader Well-Known Member

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  19. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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  20. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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  21. lemonfresh

    lemonfresh Well-Known Member

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    Lots of good wishes going out to Eli Kulp on Twitter.
     
  22. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Award-winning Philadelphia chef injured in Amtrak derailment | bizjournals.com

     
  23. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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  24. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    NTSB @NTSB
    Sumwalt: 3 seconds later, data terminated with #Amtrak train speed at 102 mph.
    1m ago ReplyRetweetFavorite

    NTSB @NTSB
    Sumwalt: Authorized speed in the curve was 50 mph. Speed when “engineer induced braking” was applied was 106 mph. #Amtrak
    1m ago ReplyRetweetFavorite
     
  25. Radical Ed

    Radical Ed Public Nuisance

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    "Whoops".
    That engineer's brain-fart just caused him seven (or more) manslaughter charges. His inattentiveness and lack of responsible forward-motion-control murdered more than half-a-dozen commuters.
    Dumb-ass.
    How hard is it to stop the throttle at the posted speed limit and just focus? Idiot doesn't even have to steer. Throw the book at his ass.
     
  26. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    #56 Jayfar, May 13, 2015
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  27. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    Now we just have to wait for his phone record and blood test. If neither of those are positive he dozed off or was reading. AP did a nice job at 2:30 pm by clocking it at 107 using the video, not sure what all the speed limiter talk is about.
     
  28. thetalkingmule

    thetalkingmule Well-Known Member

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    An explanation that made sense to me was that he thought he was north of the curve already and hit the gas. I think this was a rapid acceleration up to 100 thinking he was past the city and then derail. No time to doze off or read, just ****ty focus and a horrendous lack of fail-safes.
     
  29. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    I guess that's possible, while it looks like a memorable curve. Lack of focus for sure, much kinder than what Nutter just said on KYW. He called him "reckless and irresponsible". Then we have to wonder whether he did it on purpose like the pilot recently.

    In other news relevant to fail-safes the GOP just reduced a $2.5 billion payment for Amtrak to $1.1
     
  30. zeolite

    zeolite Banned

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    How would you know if he has PTSD, and if he did that's private health info. Or maybe you just made it up?
     

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