Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Center City' started by Phillyurban8, Sep 23, 2015.
Also added branding to the western side of the Old Galery:
Logo and tagline:
Lol someone will be upset when they try to get their nails done.
Speaking if people are still trying to go through where they closed off Tiffanys, it's fun to watch ppl see the area closed off and turn around
Or maybe Burnt Umber ??
Anyway, wouldn't it be kewl if PREIT purchased the fountain (shown above) and installed it next to Il Porcellino ?!?! A Shopping Menagerie Hall of Fame: inspiring, depressing or just plain weird...depending on your viewpoint.
Maybe PREIT can start a new architectural salvage trend. But instead of getting pieces from places like Penn Station and the Divine Lorraine, they get stuff from dead malls. I can't wait to see a busted Peeble's sign flanking the entrance to the next trendy restaurant
I call this the "Break the Walls Down" Phase....
This is where the Pub is going to be put at...
There's a pub going in at the SWC 10th and Filbert?
Aren't those louvers vent shafts from the Commuter Tunnel? If so, where are they gonna shoehorn the restaurant in?
SE corner. They won't touch the SW corner.
Oops, yeah I was looking at the angle wrong in the render:
I don't mind the brutal upper floors, but all those windows on the street will be such a welcome change! Can't imagine what they were thinking back in the '70s. Thanks a lot, disco and cocaine.
They didn't care about the outside because everyone was suppose to be inside the Mall
It's funny, today someone at RTM asked me if there was a mall around here. I wanted to say, "yeah, it's called the city." But I politely pointed them to Macy's and Walnut Street.
Mixi, thanks for all the update pictures of FOP.
On another note, I am LOVING this picture from the 80s above.
I am always fascinated with pictures from 70s and 80s. I always wonder how people lived around that time.
Its always fun to see Philly in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
Look at the Gallery then, it didn't even HAVE the square windows it does now...
I remember when they cut those windows in, when the space was converted into Health Partners in the mid 2000's....
For some reason I always have this "idealistic" views of the 70s, 80s and to some extent early 90s. Like everybody was happy, life was simpler, etc. Although I know on the back of my mind that it is not true: racial prejudice was probably more than what we experience today, LGBTs had no voice let alone equal rights, houses with asbestos siding, smoking everywhere inside public spaces, etc. etc.
Well, racial prejudice hasn't gone away really, life is better for LGBT folks, true, and some things have improved, but with the advent of the internet and smart phone people have grown self obsessed - some things about life in the dark ages were better and life moved at a slower and less dystopian pace.
Titus nailed it about the internet and smart phones. Things might be "better," but they feel infinitely worse because the bad is delivered straight to our pocket nonstop.
That said, there are definitely aspects of the 70s, 80s, and 90s that felt idyllic, or more idyllic than now even with regard to the internet, and I think the best way to describe it is "naive." But not in a bad way. In some regard it's just a matter of looking to the past with rise colored glasses, but I do think people were happier and things were simpler.
A lot of that has to do with the internet and a 24 hour newsfeed. But it was also as I remember it, especially in the 90s, there was a great amount of optimism leading up to the turn of the millennium. A lot of that was fueled by technology that was truly reshaping society in a way unseen since the Industrial Revolution. But also a lot of hope.
I don't know how old you are or what you remember, but I don't remember being such a pessimist when I was in college in the '90s. I'm gay, I had just come out, and it wasn't easy, but at the same time I loved every minute of it. I feel more accepted now than I did back then, but as weird as it was, back then it just felt better.
People weren't scared or offended when I came out to them, they were just inquisitive. They asked awkward, completely inappropriate questions, and I didn't go on some message board and b*tch about it. We empathized and answered. People were more straightforward. Now, people are afraid to say anything without a keyboard.
I like the term you used: people were more "naive" back then and to some extent less informed.
But the advance of technology nowadays could also lead to lots of misinformation.
I was born in 1989. So I was still a toddler during early 90s.
In term of social progression, I heard lots of ugly stories of more racism and of course homophobia back then.
For my generations and generation after me, we were/are spoon-fed with TV shows and medias that promotes equality for all. Shows like Glee and Teen Wolf for example. And older shows like Will and Grace.
Well, I had a long, rambling response drafted until I remembered we were in The Gallery Renovation thread
I totally agree, though, TV has come a long way. And things are empirically better for LGBT people today. I can't speak for racial or religious minorities, but I think one commonality is that with a lot of good comes a lot of bad. When we progress, opposition inevitably gets more vocal as well.
I felt more comfortable being gay in the '90s because we were still in a bit of a cocoon. Naive people could ask awkward and inappropriate questions, but it just meant they were curious enough to be cool. In the absence of any real public information - sitcoms, cable news, the internet - bigots could easily bury their heads in the sand and pretend the '90s were the '50s.
It's no longer like that, for the greater better, but for the personally more frustrating. Bigots can't bury their heads in the sand anymore, and we really can't either. We have to hear everything they say about us. We're not an underground community on the fringe of society anymore, we're a "threat" to those 1950s ideals. We're "in everyone's faces" with our gayness, simply because we have the audacity to be out.
One thing I do think remains constant is that reasonable people are good people. Whether it's racial, religious, your sexual orientation or your gender identity, I believe reasonable people simply don't give a ****, and ultimately want others to be happy as they are. I really believe that has held constant throughout time, whether it was the '20s, '90s, or today. They might not hop on a Pride parade float or organize a local chapter of PFLAG, though plenty will, but good people are good. They might not be the loudest, but they outnumber most.
Good Bye atrium(That is what the Gallery entrance was suppose to be right?):
Yeah it's amazing to see how completely backwards the 1960s and 70s understanding of successful urban design was. Let's set a main entrance 40 feet off the street, 10 feet below the street in a dark hole. Then let's situate it on a corner, but not have street frontage on one street - keeping that street a dark, creepy, avenue perfect for rats and perverts.
This is less of a re-brand, re-skinning, renovation - and more of a titanic structural correction of a total failure in urban design. Half a billion dollars later...
You gotta remember, a lot of this mammoth "urban" overhaul was built in the '60s and '70s, but planning began in the '50s. With residents fleeing the cities, urban planners were struggling with ways to attract, or simply, retain residents. Meanwhile, there weren't a lot of residents left behind to say, "stop, save that building."
For most people in the '40s and '50s, these master plans were an ideal alternative to the soot-stained Victorian and Gothic architecture that lingered as reminders of the opulence and industrialization that caused the Great Depression. I don't know if urban planners necessarily misunderstood urban design, or if out of necessity, they tried to bridge the gap between what once worked with what residents were leaving the cities for.
It's easy for us, now, to imagine how much greater Market East, Old City, Dock Street, Penn's Landing, and Vine Street would be without freeways and suburbanized, concrete plazas. But what we don't imagine is that at one point, when these master plans were laid out, urban planners had no idea that urban flight would ever end.
As scarred as Center City is from poor midcentury planning - or more specifically, poor insight into what future residents might want - we fared a lot better than other cities that completely gave up on urbanization and didn't even attempt to loosely integrate projects like The Gallery. If Philadelphia had been planned with no urban thought in the '50s and '60s, all of Market East could be parking lots with big box retailers. And sadly, there are a lot of large, or once large, cities, that deal with exactly that.
What I don't completely get is how European cities managed to retain and rebuild truly urban infrastructures, despite their own economic depressions, suburban temptations, and war. Had we, by the 1950s, already become that much more dependent on cars than our major European counterparts?
Quite honestly - we thought it was dramatic - it was something very new and different for this conservative town. Yes it failed, but who was to know that "new urbanism" would come along to be our savior?...
Yes, by the 1920's really: remember Strawbridge & Clothier and Frank & Seder had both opened suburban branch stores by the early 1930's and Sears was opening their stores on the outskirts of downtowns...had the Great Depression/WWII/Korean War not intervened, we might have seen a 50's style suburbanization much earlier.
It also makes it difficult to compare the US to Europe with regard to downtown shopping (and many other aspects of decentralization) since in many cases they're not "better" or even "different" as much as just "behind".
Yeah we had so much space to spread it is no wonder US cities are more easier to abandon then European ones.....
Good point. It's too bad we tried to suburbanize our cities to draw people back in when the ones who eventually returned - or stayed put - tend to prefer the old world walkability and aesthetic, for a large part. But I think cities are faring better than the rural areas, even with things like The Gallery.
Despite how massive the U.S. is, it always amazed me - even when I lived on a farm - that the ultimate midcentury goal was to go out and terraform as much of the nation as humanly possible. In northern cities we get a little bit of the European ideal in that there's less room to spread out, and the cities and even our suburbs are fairly old. But in the South and much more rural areas they'll literally chop down a mountain to build a big box stripmall, still.
I've always loved the rural areas and the cities, but could never wrap my head around the middle ground and why anyone would want to endure a 30 minute drive just for groceries. At least the cities are trying to return to walkable downtowns, but the rural areas are now facing the kind of suburbanization cities attempted in the 1950s, and it's actually sticking. Whenever I go back home to Virginia, another farm has been turned into a cul-de-sac community, usually with the farmhouse awkwardly stuck in the middle of it, and the community named after the farm it wrecked.
And the people who live there actually crave more and more of it. It's always, "Oh, we got a Red Lobster" or "it's looking more and more like Northern Virginia," with zero hint of irony. It's really sad. But to the people moving into these sh*t-boxes, suburbanizing farmland is their idea of "the big city." To them, it's progress. They don't understand the headaches that will come from suburbanization, or how much better it would be longterm to invest in the existing small city infrastructure rather than neglecting it for sprawl.
It's actually kind of ironic. In my small hometown, it's incredibly conservative and very anti-big government. Basically, they don't want people telling them what they can do with their land. But at the same time, one of the top reasons they choose to move into these planned communities, is because their neighbors cannot do whatever they want with their own land. Politically, they created a region where anyone can put a junkyard on their front lawn, then moved into a cardboard cul-de-sac that says every McMansion must stay some variation of beige.
That has to be a sad sight. Made me think of an old Ry Cooder song (actually a very old traditional song popularized by Cooder).
I've never heard that. I was expecting something like the Joni Mitchell "Take Paradise and Put up a Parking Lot" song. It's a cool song, but it's weirder than that, and way more frustrating. Thing is, these rural communities are also very conservative. Small time farmers will vote in favor of big business, then get taxed into oblivion when their competition - corporate farming - can afford the taxes, or find loopholes. I mean they do it to themselves, and maybe it's kind of like automation replacing manufacturing. That is if you want manufactured food. But that's all part of conflating Big Business with Progress, and what these small communities see as ideals. They hate big city liberalism, but pride themselves on the big city tokens they get: technology, automation, corporate farming, and corporate chains. All the things that killed big cities, and will kill Small Town USA.
Everyone: After Nytecat showed me this picture I noticed something that dates this photo no earlier
then 1995: Note the ad for NBC 10 on the side of the NJT Grumman Flxible Bus. The network "swap"
when Channels 3 and 10 changed affiliations occurred that year. I lived in the area then and do recall
how much NBC 10 promoted the change far more then what CBS 3 did. Found this 9/10/1995 video
I watched this very broadcast live...Hard to believe this is now 21+ years ago...Long Island Mike
Update - After enlarging and noticing the word "Olympics" on the NBC 10 ad and then finding a
Wikipedia page about the Clover discount store chain - which went defunct in 1996 - this picture
dates from 1996. Clover was a discount regional affiliate of Strawbridge & Clothier.