SEPTA Ridership and Revenue

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Transportation & SEPTA' started by eldondre, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. They've tried to run the railroad on the cheap since 1983. Their mentality is that the only alternative to a poorly run commuter rail system is no rail at all. The bump in capital funding from Act 89 has done nothing to change their outlook.

    And when did they decide to downgrade the Paoli station design to two tracks? The last one I saw was three tracks...unless the third one was for the mandatory but never-to-be-used freight bypass capability. But they see NJT and Amtrak making do with a two track Metropark station (another penny wise, pound foolish decision). So they figure if it's good enough for a real railroad like NJT it's good enough for them.
     
  2. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    I see the problems at Jenkintown and foresee them at paoli. the design is for an eventual three tracks but only two tracks are funded and, well, you know how that goes. I agree, nobody likes Metropark that actually stops trains there and a lesser stop would have been discontinued.
    there are many problems at paoli and penndot is part of it. had penndot put through cedar hollow as was the plan back in the 90's you'd be able t shut valley road bridge down which, in turn, would allow three tracks to be built immediately when the abutments were removed. or, if they'd sited the station further west there would be more room to work with. the worst option is two tracks. nonetheless, it will be a problem that Amtrak and other express trains cannot bypass locals at Paoli...more delays. SEPTA "building tomorrow's bottlenecks today."

    last I heard they were actually going to build a long platform for construction and then shorten it to six cars
     
  3. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    In 3 years SEPTA base CASH fare will be $3.00, with the idea to push everyone on to the key base fare of $1.80.

    Going to be interesting to watch, with next July the $2.50 CASH fare goes into effect(That is if the KEY goes well).
     
  4. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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  5. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    Not really fair to put the problems that were there before he got the job on him.
     
  6. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    He's not running a good organization. The operating side is sloppy. Theres been a marked decline. He can still redeem himself but so far not good.
     
  7. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    Going to take time. Speaking of sloppy:

    How the MTA Got So Broke
     
  8. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    Shouldn't since some of the stuff, like schedules, that used to work no longer work
     
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  9. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    Yeah, and a lot of that was a boulder rolling down the hill to roost. SEPTA is dealing with it.
     
  10. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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  11. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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    Appears to be related to the SODA TAX.
    Rider Revenue is down quite a lot 22 Million dollars, that is a lot!
    Maybe you can afford a soda and walk a mile or more if you ditch your SEPTA ride.
    Why no NUMBERS of the people working for SEPTA in the offices that are NOT Bus Drivers?
    Probably tons of Waste of money for SEPTA workers that have cushy office jobs.
    Looks like revenue outside the City did better?
    MY opinions, they Raise Fares as usual.
    Soda Tax has caused rampant inflation for Philadelphia residents.

    Screenshot from 2017-06-11 10-06-38.png
     
  12. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    in my experience the conductors have little respect for management. I haven't seen the same outright hostility towards customers that you used to see on regional rail but things are very sloppy. I'm sure it doesn't help that SEPTA has always run regional rail with fewer workers than it needs, relying instead on long work hours (and hence cancelled trains). SEPT mgmt. they are due for a mgmt. shakeup it would seem.
     
  13. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    So here we have relatively new wire failing on the west Trenton line. What does Jeff k do? Blames the decades old design of the wire system that worked for the private railroads for years. He calls the simple system sturdier (mainly it cheaper). Essentially this is a blatant lie. The installation by septa was botched. People have noted the wire gauge is substantially smaller than what it replaced. After the questionable grade separation project this line will not see yet another wire renewal project. At any rate, the response from the big man is to lie.
    Here's what's wrong with SEPTA's West Trenton Line
     
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  14. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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    Trenton Line trains also run at high speeds, but Amtrak maintains that line. What's the catenary configuration on it? Thicker trolley wire?
     
  15. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    The trolley wire is thicker and the overall catenary is a stronger compound (three wire) design. Next to constant tension catenary, that's the best design for high speed operation. SEPTA due their history of chronic underfunding has always been forced to cut corners. The cheap simple (two wire) catenary on the West Trenton line is a perfect example of that.
     
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  16. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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    So Jeff Knueppel's blowing smoke with his explanation for the wire replacement on WTR?
     
  17. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure. I've seen Jeff give public presentations and he comes across as sincere. At the time I believed SEPTA's assertion that the new wire was strong enough for decades to come. But the recent failures have me second guessing that.
     
  18. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    yes
     
  19. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very oldĀ®

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    So unless the article got it twisted, Knueppel's saying the 3-wire catenary system is less durable than the simpler 2-wire system, at least at high speeds. Doesn't really make sense that they would ever use 3-wire if that's the case. I'd like to see a good solid article from some RR trade journal explaining the engineering theory behind various catenary designs.
     
  20. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    the opposite of what he said is true. nytecat succinctly summarized it. one caveat is that SEPTA has never installed, to my knowledge, compound wire except for the section that failed. I'd add that you don't need to be an engineer to know something is wrong with the claim, the compound wire design lasted rom the 1930's through the 1990's or whenever SEPTA replaced it.

    I'd also add that there have been a lot of issues with septa's $138 million separation project on the west Trenton line as well. while Jeff K claims it is performing as expected, delays and run times indicate otherwise. not to single out Mr. K out, but SEPTA is notorious for bending over backwards to avoid admitting a mistake...(fare credits anyone?)
     
  21. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    SEPTA's last major installation of compound catenary, to the best of my knowledge, was between Brown Street and Wayne Junction as part of RailWorks.

    Correction: The section between Wayne Junction and Jenkintown or Glenside also has compound catenary. That's around 10 years old now.
     
    #201 Nytecat, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
  22. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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