Self-Segregation in Charter Schools

Discussion in 'Parenting and Education' started by MarketStEl, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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    Charter school proponents tout the privately run public schools as a way to improve choice and educational outcomes for students, especially students in low-income and minority communities.

    Some studies have already suggested that charters as a whole don't produce significantly better educational outcomes for students thanks to wide variations in the quality of the individual schools. Now a new study of charter schools in Pennsylvania finds that black and Latino students especially will choose charter schools where their own race dominates even if more diverse schools are closer. (White students also tended to make this choice, but the distance factor, it appears, wasn't as significant.)

    Students seem to prefer charter schools dominated by members of their race, Pa. study finds | Newsworks / WHYY

    So has it come to pass that, after the great push for integration of the Civil Rights years and the subsequent rise of identity politics, we've all internalized Jim Crow? Or is something else afoot?
     
  2. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Why is this a surprise? Look at the suburbs--you know those places people move to supposedly for the schools. They're really just another way to self-segregate.
     
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  3. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    I think that there are factors here that can't be so easily dismissed as "self-segregation."

    Charter schools sell themselves, and need to distinguish themselves to do so. So you end up seeing some charters with slick marketing brochures which are designed to appeal to a certain demographic. So some focus on "discipline," with the belief that this will appeal to blacks who are afraid that their kids will end up in gangs, or, similarly, on test scores, which may be seen as the key to a college education. On the other hand, whereas places like Independence Charter (a mostly white charter) focus on softer elements because most white families really aren't as worried that their kid is going to become a street corner drug dealer.
     
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  4. billy ross

    billy ross Well-Known Member

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    ICS is mostly white? I don't believe that.
     
  5. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    I just looked at the stats and you are correct, now it is not. But 5-10 years ago when it started, it was lots and lots of white kids immersed in Spanish. From the school's page, it also looks like it is no longer a parent-driven school (which is what charters were meant to be) -- the PTA page hasn't been updates since before November, 2016.
     
  6. tsarstruck

    tsarstruck Well-Known Member

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    I'll never forget the zoning meeting with a charter school that I won't mention. During the meeting, I was weirded out by *how* they were talking about their French language and ballet offerings and how they kept focusing on how they weren't going to be offering buses. And then after the meeting, I swear to God, the principal told me that she "couldn't believe how many white parents are sending their kids to public schools." My mouth just about hit the floor. If you don't think charters *themselves* are part of the segregation, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
     
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  7. OldMama

    OldMama Well-Known Member

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    By not offering buses, charters can keep out students they don't want. Many of the ones that don't offer busing tend to be very white.
     
    #7 OldMama, Apr 5, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  8. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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    (emphasis added)

    Race traitors, all of 'em, obviously.

    But that would actually jibe with buzz I've been hearing recently - comments to the effect that "Philly's public schools aren't as bad as everyone says they are."
     
  9. tsarstruck

    tsarstruck Well-Known Member

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    The comment was half the "not as bad" vibe, but the other half "we can make this a white school." When your principal says that, the school doesn't bus, the school emphasizes French and ballet... that's not just quacking like a duck.
     
  10. MarketStEl

    MarketStEl Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash

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    One of the things I have a hard time explaining to willfully blind (conservatives | liberals) is that there is a crucial difference between the white flavor of self-segregation and the black one.

    One of those willfully blind folks, this one on the right, asked me in the course of a discussion on a related topic (namely, integration and why so many blacks insist on it) on Facebook, "wouldn't the problem be solved by giving the black schools the same resources as the white ones?"

    I had to explain to him why "separate but equal" wasn't - and wouldn't be if we tried it again now.

    Whites self-segregate to preserve their privilege and advantages (real or perceived).

    Blacks self-segregate to create environments where they're not subject to white presumptions of inferiority.

    BTW, in case you've forgotten, I'm an integrationist.
     
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  11. billy ross

    billy ross Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Whites self-segregate to preserve their standards. See White Flight. It's useful to bring the Asians into the mix. I see them as Uber-whites. So from the standpoint of educational standards, it's Asians > Whites > Hispanics > Blacks. Blacks have fairly recently got on board with the idea that education is Beyond Important. But you know that 'Blacks' aren't a monolith. So there is a cohort of blacks that see education as the pinnacle. The Obamas are in that cohort. And there is a cohort of parents who simply don't understand education. They aren't agin' it. They simply don't grasp its subtleties. That cohort is overrepresented in the parents of Roxborough High School students. So whites (and Asians and educationally oriented blacks and Hispanics) avoid Roxborough High in droves. And rightly so.

    Your description of it as "Whites self-segregate to preserve their privilege and advantages (real or perceived)." is patronizing at best and self-delusional at worst.
     
    #11 billy ross, Apr 25, 2017 at 1:01 PM
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM
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  12. OldMama

    OldMama Well-Known Member

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    I see very little difference in "reserving their privilege and advantages" and "to preserve their standards." Both imply that blacks have lower standards., that their children can't succeed in schools in which the whites are not a strong majority.
     
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  13. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    when looking at schools for our daughter, the advice we got was that in the lower levels you just need good environment for learning...once you have that, they differences aren't huge. as they get older, the quality of the schools begin to separate. in our catchment, the local school went from being something nobody would consider to something people are trying to make work. behind that is a lot of effort by a few parents and, frankly, stability. the school's finances increase incrementally each year and have for a few years rather than being cut which is leading to schools people will choose. it also helps that some of the old transfer in schools are full so people who want to send their kids to public school and stay in the city have to choose the local catchment.
    as for your other comment about privilege, I would think that parents are mostly the same. we want what is best for our kids. most simply assume all the schools are bad, many are put off by the terrible test scores. while they value diversity they are going to choose a school with good test scores.
     
    #13 eldondre, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:39 PM
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017 at 4:08 PM
  14. boognish

    boognish Well-Known Member

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    You see, white guys have names like Lenny, while black guys have names like Carl.
     
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  15. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    There is no difference; it's still bigotry and racism.
     
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