Revel casino ac !!! Yeah baby

Discussion in 'NJ Shore Points' started by Gio7707, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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    Whether they'll be converted into beach-front condos for geezers or for non-geezers, it sounds like a coup for TJM.

    Putting aside potential uses for the retail portion, $13.5 million for the 800 hotel rooms alone comes in at a purchase price of under $17,000 per room. Combining hotel rooms and renovating into beach-front condos could turn out to be really profitable. Despite AC's current woes and worsening coastal impacts from climate change, beach-front Jersey Shore property will remain in demand, especially high-rise residences that are presumably at lower risk for flood losses in 100 year storms.
     
  2. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Still, is there demand for 3-4 casinos worth of beach front hi-rise condos, geezer or otherwise? Thats a lot of units hitting the market in 3 or 4 years.
     
  3. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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    No reason they need roll out all at once. They could, for instance, do mixed-use for a period hotel/condos.

    Edit: I should also note that the Atlantic Club building when it was last sold in 2005 was valued at $513 million. 9 years later, TJM's $13 million purchase price is 1/2 billion dollars less. Nice price chop.
     
    #213 borntochill, Jul 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  4. OffenseTaken

    OffenseTaken Well-Known Member

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    You know, it's not like the casinos are taking up so much land that there's no room for anything else. And unsightly as it might be, I'd rather be looking at the back end of the Taj Mahal from my balcony than any of the syringe-strewn empty lots that cover most of the rest of the city.

    The presence of casinos is not what's precluding these other uses for the city that we have fun imagining. Nor is the absence of a bullet train to Philadelphia, nor is the state of NJ's unwillingness to shower more money upon the city that it doesn't have.

    There's so much empty land in AC already that no one wants. Demolishing nuisance properties might help reduce crime, but it isn't exactly going to trigger a real estate boom. That's like seeing there's no one on the beach, so you truck in some sand.

    The squalor that really hurts AC is the squalor that's inhabited by the city's poor, and that can't be demolished until they pack up and leave, which they generally seem uninterested in doing.

    You could say the same thing about Newport, RI, a city which has had to reinvent itself several times and has actually pulled it off: from whaling port, to playground of the rich, to naval base, to playground of the rich again. I don't know what their poverty and crime rates are, but I'll bet Newporters aren't too concerned about either. AC's are both higher than Philadelphia's. Yet AC is also within a couple hours of a lot more people and money, and its oceanfront is in some ways superior to Newport's.

    AC never really adapted because it sucks at it. The only industry that's had any success there in 40 years (besides the drug trade) is one that enjoyed a regional monopoly extracted from a political advantage. This should never cease to amaze people: gambling only did well in AC as long as gamblers had nowhere else to go within 1,000 miles. The mere existence of competition has led to its speedy collapse. And now it has nothing to fall back on. Newport preserved its history; AC dynamited theirs. There are 6 places still standing in all of AC that are on the National Register of Historic Places. There are probably single blocks in Philadelphia that have more.

    The place deserves neither our pity nor our problem-solving skills.
     
  5. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how re-branding AC as a beach destination would even fly in NJ? I get the impression a lot of families go to towns like Wildwoods and Ocean City because the parents went there as kids. They go to the same town every summer. If AC wants to reestablish its reputation as a beachfront destination, I think they should target South Jersey/Philadelphia/SE PA residents who have no connection to the Jersey Shore, the ones who go to the Outer Banks and Hilton Head every year. There are a lot of people new to the area who don't hold the same prejudice towards AC that so many locals do. Look at where they spend their yearly weeklong vacations and offer that experience: golf courses, outlet malls, and gated communities, and give them all of that an hour from Philadelphia. Trump and Caesars have the kind of money to invest in transforming the city. I'm not sure why they continue to operate in AC as one trick ponies despite the trend they obviously see.
     
  6. Scoats

    Scoats Well-Known Member

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    There are huge vacant lot superblocks between casinos, which had to have been assembled and land banked for future casino projects. These things are real city killing dead zones that help to make properties like Baltic Ave worth only $19k. Since that land will now never be casinos and be un-land banked, it can be put back to use as 3 story high buildings like what was originally there.

     
  7. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Right but the idea of casinos is that the gambling brings in and helps to pay for the hotel rooms. That why the casinos all have "rewards" programs where if you gamble X amount they give a free hotel room so you will continue to gamble while you stay in their establishment. The gambling is the money maker, they already have a surplus hotel capacity. But if the gambling isn't there its not like converting it back to a hotel without gambling is suddenly going to make money. The mixed-use you are proposing is probably more of a money loser than just straight condos.

    If the three casinos that are closing could make money on hotels alone without gambling, they would not be going out of business and selling their hotel buildings at a loss.
     
    #217 seand, Jul 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  8. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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    Redevelopment of Atlantic City from a gambling-centric destination to whatever its next iteration will look like will occur in fits and starts. I'm not making any predictions, nor do I know what the appropriate mix will be. Certainly all those rooms cannot be put to use early on and even warehousing of substantial parts of the hotel until conditions are ripe for development should be financially feasible considering the fire sale price that they purchased it for.

    For the rooms to be filled, there will have to be some momentum toward the next Atlantic City. I don't know what it will look like but I am certain that it will happen (eventually). Asbury Park had fallen on very hard times with the beach area decrepit and areas adjacent to the beach poor and dangerous. It came back. So too will Atlantic City, although I've no crystal ball as to how long it will take.
     
  9. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    Turn AC into a big gay party town, the Northeast's answer to South Beach.
     
  10. Exigius12point5

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    It's been done before.
    The casinos knocked that down, decades ago.
     
  11. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    I actually think I read about that somewhere. Something about big drag shows and Henri David in the 70s. The city has a pretty colorful history despite what it's become.
     
  12. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    AC does have plenty of land no one wants, but beach front property is limited and rarely available. I don't have experience in commercial real estate, but I assume knocking these things down would breed more opportunity than leaving them up and hoping someone else knocks em down (or re-purposes them - into what exactly, I don't know).

    Wildwood is really 2 towns - the part near the boardwalk and the part far away from the boardwalk. One is nice, the other is covered in Jersey's version of Kenzos. The situation is obviously more extreme in AC but I don't think new beachfront/boardwalk-facing properties would sit vacant long, especially if small temporary seasonal structures were permitted until bigger projects come along.
     
  13. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Why would anyone knock down an 800-plus high-rise hotel, instead of converting it to condos or apartments? You really must not "know much about commercial real estate" if you think its going to be economical to knock down high-rise buildings already set up with lots residential-grade ammenities and safety features to put in low-rise skee-ball and salt water taffy stands.

    No, its very easy.cheap to knock down a couple of walls and turn hotel rooms into apartments and condos and thats whats going to happen to these places. The point being however, that the residential market is likely to be flooded for some time with all those conversions so its not like the gentrifying effect of those full time residents is going to spread inland from the beach till all that surplus ocean front residential capacity gets worked through. The boardwalk could relatively easily become a great place for seaside condos and older folks to retire but that change is not going to spread to rest of the town for a very, very long time.

    More full-time residents with a little spending cash will bring in some improvements in terms of everyday retail close to beach, but comfortable retirement haven is not as much a jobs engine as mini-Vegas by the beach.
     
  14. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but aren't Provincetown and Rehoboth and Asbury Park all already trying to be the Northeast's main gay beach/party town?

    The gays alone are not going to turn AC around. Though there is no reason why Atlantic City shouldn't use it as one part of the mix. Gays, gulls and geezers. It could be a new thing.
     
  15. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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  16. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    I didn't mention the hotels. I mentioned the ground-level casinos beneath them. They'll need to be demo'ed/renovated/re-purposed. I'm in AC a couple times a year and down the shore nearly every weekend from April - October. Walking on the boardwalk past these old casinos is like walking along the Berlin Wall. And it'll be worse when they're empty.

    The casinos facing the beach have to be replaced with something that's not casinos.
     
  17. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Its not like you wouldn't redo it anyway at that price. With 20% down thats a $91 a month mortgage. For the right bargain shopper (maybe somebody with an ultra-secure job working for Atlantic City government or something) its not an awful deal. I might uncovert the the front porch and enclose it in wrought-iron PR-style and put on a roof deck. Plus you could always say "I bought a house on Baltic Ave. for Monopoly money".
     
  18. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    Flood damage too.
    But believe it or not there's a modern building at 101 Boardwalk Ave at the end of the boardwalk, next to Revel, and right at the point.
    Pool, a small gym, 24 hr security, etc.
    1 yr leases for one bedrooms go for for $1080/mo...utilities included. Great deal.

    Welcome to The Ocean 101 at Boardwalk!
     
  19. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    I don't really understand how you completely demo only the bottom floor of a high-rise building without disturbing the upper floors. Of course they convert the bottom floor. Most of it facing towards the boardwalk they convert to retail, restaurants, shops and the like, some of the casino floor space away from the beach becomes becomes gyms, activity rooms and the like for your full-time residents. You were talking like the state of New Jersey had to foot the whole bill to eminent domain and demo the whole building to make room for low-rise Tshirt shops and skee-ball.
     
  20. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure? That address is pretty far inland. That looks like former tenant damage. There are ton of empty lots around it in the aerial view, but again it looks like poverty destruction, not natural disaster destruction. Think of it as North Philly by the beach at sub-Chester prices.

    Yeah, well there's going to bea lot more of that on the Boardwalk very soon. At least 3 casino/hotels worth.
     
    #230 seand, Jul 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  21. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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    seand, that was a joke. Those appliances are more commonly found in the condo lofts of investment bankers.
     
  22. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    I got the sarcasm, perhaps I did not properly convey it over the internets. The whole reason I picked out the most bombed out end of Baltic was to reference Monopoly. Like I said, North Philly by the beach at sub-Chester prices.
     
  23. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    Same way demo comes in for any other floor in a building. Sledgehammers, crowbars, small machinery, etc. I've worked demo. It's demo that comes in and knocks walls down, tears out flooring, etc. I should've worded my posts better.

    And my point is NJ should pay for the demo. And maybe even some generic storefront boardwalk-facing and street-facing renovation.
     
  24. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    I can't look now but I'm pretty sure the website listing disclosed flood damage.
     
  25. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

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    Beachfront Section 8 baby!
    Honestly though, that cheap to live here:
    Tough to beat when you love the ocean. I can work from home, so I'm definitely doing it once my woman finally says enough is enough and kicks me the eff out.
     
  26. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    I was being cheeky :p
     
  27. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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  28. phillyaggie

    phillyaggie Well-Known Member

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  29. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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  30. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

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    At least we might get a restaurant with a decent view of the bridge out of the deal. Gambling is boring if not downright unpleasant to me personally, its literally impossible for me to enjoy spending money on something where I know the whole point is just to deprive me of my hard earned cash. To me its the equivalent of intentionally surrounding yourself with a 100 panhandlers and kids selling candybars or magazine subscriptions at once. Why would I want to intentionally expose myself to that?

    Literally, its a pleasurable moment of schadenfreude for about 30 seconds to walk through and look at the stupid people voluntarily exposing themselves to the money sucking machine and then I'm done.

    So the fact said that we never got decent restaurant options that took full advantage of the view of the waterfront was the biggest disappointment.
     
    #240 seand, Jul 23, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014

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