Revel casino ac !!! Yeah baby

Discussion in 'NJ Shore Points' started by Gio7707, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,843
    Likes Received:
    614
    Wow, so Revel is bankrupt and Showboat and Trump are closing. Once the rest close that's gonna make one cool a$$ ghost town for graffiti artists.
     
  2. phillyaggie

    phillyaggie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    6,790
    Likes Received:
    76
    how many times has Trump filed bankruptcy for the Taj Mahal? At least twice more in the past? They probably don't shut down forever...
     
  3. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    9,534
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    If those 3 close down, that will leave what, 8? That might effectively right-size the AC casino industry, while still leaving enough critical mass to remain a gambling (and maybe tourism) destination.
     
  4. Scoats

    Scoats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    91
    Department stores found value in clustering together in malls. In PA, casinos are legally restricted from clustering. I assume it was casino lobbyists who had that added to the law. Maybe casinos see more value in being self contained and only clustered in AC because that was the only other place in the USA where gambling was legal.

    Is critical mass needed? Do gamblers casino hop? I'm curious.
     
  5. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes,sometimes but more and more the industry has been about "rewards" programs designed to keep frequent gamblers coming exclusively to your casino or casinos exclusively.

    I'm wondering at the rate things are going, how successful some of these properties would be to be converted back to high rise condos instead of casinos at all.
     
  6. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cheap beach property. Might be the best real estate ROI opportunity available for the rest of our lifetimes. What's a house cost in those slum neighborhoods 2 blocks from the boardwalk? Can't be more than $50,000. I've seen every bad part of Philadelphia and very few areas are as bad as AC.
     
  7. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Put on your top hat and buy on Baltic for less than $20k apparently.
    1107 Baltic Avenue, Atlantic City NJ For Sale - Trulia

    Do not pass Go.
     
  8. Exigius12point5

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm certainly not religious, but didn't the Bible speak of gambling as a SIN?
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    That said, this wave of closures sounds like some sort of "cleansing" brought on by unknown powers.
    Like dominos, they fall by the wayside.

    Pity. :)
     
  9. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    12,663
    Likes Received:
    320
    Oh no, these powers aren't known, its good old capitalism..
     
  10. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, when you go from having a regional monopoly to everyone in all the surrounding states having more convenient options in their own states, its a pretty basic over-supply for limited amount of demand problem.
     
  11. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    12,663
    Likes Received:
    320
    Suburban Philadelphia Magazine reassuring its readers that they won't be effected by Atlantic City:

    Will Atlantic City Casino Closures Hurt the Housing Market?

     
  12. Baloo

    Baloo Proud Roman Catholic

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    34
    It's sad that all of these people have to lose their jobs due to incompetent management and corrupt politicians who literally could not keep Atlantic City's best interests, doing other things to make the town less of a complete dump that it's been for the last 40 years since the Casinos opened and turn it into a tourist resort a la Vegas. Had A.C's casino operators and the NJ State government invested in the town a bit more, and perhaps lobbied the federal government to not open up casinos everywhere else to oversaturate the market, there wouldn't be this problem. How does a shore town become a slum? AC was the goose that laid golden eggs, but rather than feed the goose, they decided to pluck the feathers off of it too.

    And now Christie wants to open up a casino in Jersey City? Are we serious? Every politician thinks that opening up another casino is the cure-all for their budget shortfalls when in reality it kills the business for everyone, because many of the casinos opening up recently don't put out a good product. Sugar House takes away business from the Borgata, but is not classy enough to bring other non-gamblers to the area through tourism, so nothing can be sustained.

    Combine that with the fact that young people simply don't gamble as much as older people do, they'd rather go to clubs and good restaurants and beaches. AC literally could have all of this. And why doesn't AC have sports betting yet? Delaware casinos are on the brink of closing too.

    This is government incompetence at its finest.
     
  13. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    What blow my mind is that NJ legislature is considering opening up North Jersey to casinos, even though, obviously they will be mostly be stealing business from AC. Do they not think the state will be left holding the bag for AC when AC implodes?
     
  14. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,016
    Likes Received:
    388
    they should have allowed the casinos to move IMO. It would be crazy not to allow casinos in north jersey, why should it be easier to gamble in PA from NYC than in NJ?
     
  15. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Its already easier to gamble in New York state itself and in Connecticut from NYC than in either Bethlehem, PA or Atlantic City, New Jersey.

    Its not so much that they are losing out on NYC gambling traffic, its that they cannibalizing their own state. Moving, to your point, at least is a zero sum game.

    Its really a stretch to say Jersey City is going to be more convenient to NYC gamblers than Yonkers already is. That is if you consider a majority of gamblers are older and suburban. Jersey City is closer to Wall Street as the crow flies certainly, but for a gambler from Flushing or Long Island if you figure in the tunnel or bridge toll, Yonkers a few blocks over the Bronx line wins hands down.
     
    #195 seand, Jul 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  16. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    12,663
    Likes Received:
    320
    Seeing I just got back from Vegas, I wouldn't say that Vegas is that far away from Atlantic City in terms of being a dump on the outside. Every Casino Resort there has it own theme and stuff, but outside is like a wasteland. They are finally turning the outside into something that looks like Time Square, but its still years away from reach that....
     
  17. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Vegas beyond the casinos was gaining ground as a retirement area for a while but when the economy took a dive, trips to Vegas took a dive bringing down their whole economy. They also got hit harder than most by the foreclosure crisis.
     
  18. PASnow

    PASnow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    11
    Reno is a toilet.
     
  19. Lawl Cat

    Lawl Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Margate and Longport's appeal as beach resort communities has always stood fairly independent of Atlantic City. I grew up going to Margate, and other than the occasional dinner at the Knife and Fork (which sucks now, by the way), I never even stepped foot in Atlantic City until college. Ventnor, which these days is basically "half Margate, half Atlantic City" is a different story, as its economy is dependent on both secondary home-owners/seasonal renters in the southern portion and the day tripper/hotel-staying crowd further north, many members of the latter group going down with Atlantic City specifically in mind. I also believe that northern Ventnor, like Brigantine, is home to a lot of casino employees. Margate, Longport, and southern Ventnor's year-round residents, on the other hand, are disproportionately retirees; families have increasingly opted for the Mainland Regional school district towns of Somers Point, Linwood, and Northfield, as conditions at Atlantic City High School have gotten worse and worse.

    I don't think Atlantic City is entirely "doomed," although its days as a regional gambling mecca are probably numbered. Given how heavily Atlantic County's economy has become reliant on the gambling industry, it's certainly naive for Philly mag to suggest that that the macroeconomic shift will have no effect whatsoever on the Downbeach communities. However, I do think any decline in Margate/Longport's real estate values will be relatively modest.
     
  20. Exigius12point5

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    882
    Likes Received:
    1
    My old girlfriend lives in Ventnor, worked at the Atlantic casino.
    20 years there, she bought a nice home, invested and fixed it up, now has to sell it because of being laid off.

    My opinon: you depend on a job with questionable longevity (thinking you're living large), and extend yourself financially, oops, big mistake.
     
  21. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,843
    Likes Received:
    614
    I thought about that, but the same deterrent to cheap property in AC applies to any cheap property in NJ: the insane property tax. You can probably spend three times as much on a vacation home in Delaware and come out even considering what NJ would charge you.
     
  22. Malloy

    Malloy Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,259
    Likes Received:
    42
    Not sure about other NJ shore towns, but taxes are pretty cheap in Sea Isle City. Example: $2500 /yr for a 25 y/o ~2000sqft ~$650k home.
     
  23. Lawl Cat

    Lawl Cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that's a pretty universal shore town practice. Margate and Longport taxes are usually ~0.75% of fair market value. The Mainland towns are similar to the rest of South Jersey, however.
     
  24. OffenseTaken

    OffenseTaken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    2,473
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why would the return be so good, because you buy cheap? Come on.

    Give me one reason to think that a $19K house on Baltic Ave. is going to be worth more than $19K 15 years from now. At least you have some people cleaning toilets for a living in AC right now.

    Demand isn't going to pick up magically now that the casinos are abandoning AC. That's a fantasy. The city ran out of time on one claim to fame before they even tried to find another. Now the mayor can stick as many rainbow flags in the sand as he wants. It's still going to be a saltwater Camden.
     
  25. Scoats

    Scoats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    91
    AC was a dump before the casinos opened. There are a couple movies from the 70s (Atlantic City and The of Marvins Gardens) that show that. AC being so dumpy was the justification for legalizing casions there; the bait being that gambling would tranform AC into a nice place. To be fair, Las Vegas of 40 years ago wasn't the Vegas of today. It was pretty dumpy as well. I was in the Atlantic Club, which I believe was built as the east coast Golden Nugget, last fall. It was a pretty spot on recreation of a Freemont old style Vegas casino and equally as strangely dated.

    Casinos like stadiums have little interest in making their neighborhoods better. They don't want a share of your money. They want all of it.

    They could lobby all they wanted but neighboring states got sick of seeing their residents going across state lines to blow their money and enriching another state.

    AC was a city and like real cities before WWII, it had rich people, middle people, and poor people. Like every other US city after WWII, the rich and middle moved to the burbs, leaving only poor people, which is how it became a slum.
     
  26. Scoats

    Scoats Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    91
    The casinos are city killing black holes. They are giant landhogging boxes with landhogging parking garages attached to them. Gamblers drive in, spend their money, and drive home. And most of the casinos are ugly to boot. Who wants to live near that?

    The tide has turned; cities are making a comeback. If something less parasitic replaces gambling, AC could be a neat place to live. It already has a nice beach and a nature trail along the bay. All it would take is a modern day Tony Goldman to do to AC what Goldman did South Beach and to 13th Street here in Philly.
     
  27. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    To be fair, that particular $19k house on Baltic Ave. is a bank sale so under normal sale conditions might fetch a whopping $30 or $40k, $50k maybe with a decent Home Depot spruce up.

    Maybe AC can bring back the days of Boardwalk Empire glory by convincing the rest of the country to disastrously experiment with prohibition while they wallow in a bathtub of bootleg liquor.
     
  28. Pitt

    Pitt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey I don't disagree. I was just starting a real estate investment conversation by floating a topic. Those who don't think those AC neighborhoods can get any worse are wrong. They're not at rock bottom yet, but the state risks more squalor by letting huge empty structures like that rot.
    NJ might want to consider state-funded demolitions. Take em down and maybe a bunch of small Wildwood/Seaside/Point Pleasant boardwalk front business move in to the vacated land.
     
  29. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    12,663
    Likes Received:
    320
    You are acting lie that its going to be a small hole. We are talking 50x Disney Hole here. A bunch of small Wildwood/Seaside/Point Pleasant boardwalk front business wouldn't even put a dent into it.

    Here is a good view of it:

    Tanger Outlets | Atlantic City, NJ | Directory

    Caesar's parking garage is TWO city blocks(that is compared to the NINE restaurants and outlet stores next to it), and that not even taking in the casino and hotel itself.
     
  30. seand

    seand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,955
    Likes Received:
    2
    Atlantic Club was bought by a Florida company that mostly specializes in hi-rise retirement communities. Till the market is completely saturated, I think that trend will continue. It would be a big loss of improvement on the land and potential property taxes to go from what could be high-rise residential to single story retail. Plus the existing casino buildings already have empty gaming floors that could be converted to retail without demoing the buildings.

    Atlantic Club sells for $13.5 million to TJM Properties Inc. - pressofAtlanticCity.com: Business

    In other words, from part time geezers gambling to full-time geezers living in hotels converted to senior living condos. Its already got parking, elevators, cafeterias built right in.

    Of course, all those full-time old people won't necessarily be that great for AC's financial bottom line either.
     
    #210 seand, Jul 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014

Share This Page