Remarried couples should abstain from sex, Philadelphia Catholic church says

Discussion in 'Spirituality and Faith' started by borntochill, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    DCnPhilly, ]Maybe it's because I wasn't raised in a city with such a Catholic presence, but I'm always amazed how much influence the Catholic church exerts over Philadelphia's media and politicians. The archdiocese has no authority over protestant, Jewish, and Islamic beliefs, and certainly not over my secular ones. If this is what the church wants, those who disagree should be leaving it en masse. Dwindling numbers would mean dwindling influence. That's not to say every last child molester that the Vatican protects shouldn't be prosecuted like some pervert working in a bike shop. And I think those protecting them should be taken down Penn State style. But when it comes to the religious rules of choice - like abstinence, or following an ant-gay religion despite your sexual orientation - get the **** out. It's my understanding that you don't get to pick the religious rules you choose to follow, that's why I don't follow one. I don't know how so many can be so steadfastly devoted to a religion they obviously don't see eye-to-eye with, and to continue giving them money to-boot.

    ***************


    I know it's hard to understand but when you are born into it it's a primal thing at your core and if you've never been anywhere else there really is a fear of eternal damnation... The fear is real and takes a long while to overcome. Left over from the middle ages.

    St Luke's would be the perfect place for your to answer questions.

    The Church of Saint Luke & The Epiphany

    [​IMG]
     
    #61 Gladys, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
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  2. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    Hey Gladys (sorry, had a hard time quoting your post), I do kind of get it. It's probably more that I don't want to get it because it seems so silly to me. My grandmother was Catholic, raised my dad, aunt, and uncle in PA's Catholic climate. Between my dad marrying an episcopalian, divorces by my aunt and uncle, me being gay, she became more of a pick-and-choose Catholic. Very devout in her own way and the most amazing person I've ever known, but still very Catholic. I'm sure she struggled with it but she was very personal with religion. I'm sure she prayed for me and maybe even thought I was a sinner, but that didn't bother me. It always hit me when we were in church and she chanted "I'm not willing to receive you," or whatever that prayer is. Says who? She's was a freakin' saint. Heaven's lucky to have her. She loved everyone.

    Anyway...

    She was really the last Catholic in my family. My dad remarried, he's not religious at all, never really was. My aunt and uncle have found new churches, I'm not sure which ones, but they're very accepting of everyone. I honestly think that entire situation spells out very well what the Catholic church is losing. They're struggling to adapt. It's happened in the past, post-Medieval times and in the Renaissance when followers began questioning things and embracing "new" lifestyles. That's all happening again, and they're going to have to adapt again.

    In no way do I believe in Catholicism (or that Jesus was anything more than a barefoot hippie with some good ideas about peace and love), but I think it's extremely cynical of them to turn away would-be Catholics who believe in their doctrine because of modern, everyday pitfalls. Just from a marketing point of view, being so unforgiving isn't just turning away would-be Catholics, it's turning their would-be Catholics away from Christianity altogether. I have no personal problem with that, but it shows they need to get their **** in gear if they want to last, at least in increasingly secular cultures.
     
  3. DCnPhilly

    DCnPhilly Well-Known Member

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    I've never read that but it's an interesting read, especially for an anthropology dork like me. I could see lay Christians reading that and hearing Genesis, up until the last two paragraphs.

    Hinduism has always interested me. It's probably the closest modern day parallel to an ancient western religion, and the best to give us any insight into what they actually believed.
     
  4. Phillyxpat

    Phillyxpat Harrowgateer

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    I have extreme opinions on the subject. The local Catholic church in Philly got built around immigrant anxiety in living in this strange Protestant country and with its quaint local Quaker subculture. That the Know Nothing riots in the 1840s against the Irish was the basis of the local Catholic church taking over education and or indoctrination of all Catholics, Irish, German, Italian etc. The Sudetenland German Bishop (Saint) Neumann got the Prot bankers to loan him the money to build a separate but equal school system. All the more money the Wasps could dedicate to graft as they built a Public School system that could spread tax money around lavishly for classrooms with at most 30-35 students. The Catholics were happy to be double taxed for their special ticket to heaven. First on property and other taxes that built that other secular school system. And secondly at the collection plate. Sometimes 2-3 collections in every Sunday mass to squeeze every penny out of the rubes in the audience. And the education in a parochial school was probably superior in some parishes and at some levels and on par with any elite schools that the City built around town. But I can remember having 103 students on the first day of first grade in a Catholic school in 1958 and it dwindled down, those boomer numbers and demands, to a class of 66 boys in a segregated by sex 8th grade class. Education in the local Catholic High was probably superior to the public high schools. A lot of the urban ills and social disconnects of that urban life did not filter into the Catholic school system but out. Plenty of discipline or the fear of corporal punishment of caning from the nuns and detention in high school. All in all it all collapses starting in the sixties with Vatican II which for a while gave Catholics a Prot POV with use of an informed conscience etc. But that all disappeared with the Polish pope and his ties to CIA money laundering through the Vatican Bank to bring about regime change in Communist Poland. The Church got political and oberlooked the perverts priests and bishops so long as they produced their cash quotas to the Vatican Bank. Chaput and his medieval world views was appointed by the politik bureau JPII/BXVI CEO regimes. Now with the demise of religion in the modern thought, all Chaput has to do is commoditize all that R/E that the immigrants built with their sweat and literally pennies, nickels and dimes, sell it, invest the money offshore, and order the last Philly catholics in the last last lifeboats what to do with their genitals.

    BTW I wanted to marry in the Catholic church some thirty odd years ago here in New York. Was told that my wife’s first marriage, a civil marriage that ended in divorce was an obstacle to a Catholic marriage. That we had to pay a service fee of $2,500 to petition the Vatican to annul my wife’s first civil marriage. A lot of chump change at the time for us and a process that could take years. (Someone like recent convert to the the one true faith Newt Gingrich probably got VIP treatment in annulling his three civil marriages before his holy marriage sacrament with Callista and in record time for a hefty cash donation?) The scam sounded a whole lot like selling indulgences to me which is what Martin Luther got off on when he and his greedy German Princes broke with the eternally Corrupt Rome. We found a local Methodist minister whose specialty was marrying broken divorced Catholics to marry us with minimum fuss and fees. Whatever.
     
  5. OKT3

    OKT3 Garager

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    "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed" Ring-a-ring-a-ring!

    Lapsed Catholic here, but that stuff is still drilled into my head, lol. And I went to public school! Even when I was a kid, I remember thinking that line was kind of bogus, along with confession, etc. Of all the dopey things I rebelled against and questioned, the religion skepticism stuck.
     
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  6. drewrob23

    drewrob23 Well-Known Member

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    As an agnostic, I believe that people who believe in God should be more focused on their personal relationship with God and not the rules and standards of men who are just as imperfect as the rest of us.

    I'll never forget when I attended Roman Catholic and for some reason we couldn't go to the basilica. They had us up in the gymnasium for mass and afterwards students could confess their sins to the priest. This was during my atheist phase and I just couldn't understand why Catholics couldn't just ask forgiveness from God and needed an intermediary. Whate Whatever issues I had with my father's denomination of Christianity, I was glad that we didn't have to go through the same motions as Catholics
     

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