PMC One Water Street reneges on affordable housing

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Real Estate' started by Gladys, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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  2. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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  3. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    Not in decent walkable neighborhoods with good public transportation and shopping etc... Infant there is a shortage of housing stock in those areas due to the city hanging on to vacant properties and land. But we've had this conversation many times over the years.
     
  4. Cro Burnham

    Cro Burnham Well-Known Member

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    I don't personally care that they got to build higher. It's a fundamentally stupid policy that they needed to provide L/M housing for four measly extra floors of height in a site where it ought to be legal to build a building four times as tall. That isolated, highway-bound site could accommodate a 50 story building and not infringe on anybody else's QOL.

    It's also a fundamentally stupid idea to lay the responsibility of developing affordable housing at the feet of private developers via localized "linkages" like this zoning policy.

    The policy essentially states: we, the City, have deliberately underzoned this site. In order for you as a developer to be allowed to use this site to its highest and best use, you need to pay a bribe to the public in the form of x,y, or z . . .

    Lack of affordable housing is a national problem associated with a national economic system that generates poorly educated, poverty-prone people. Every American, every industry needs to play a part in addressing this problem. If one thinks even a tiny bit carefully about it, one recognizes the arbitrariness of the simplistic notion that because local developers are in the local housing business, they are somehow more responsible for providing local affordable housing - as if they caused the problems that made people in this city to poor to afford decent housing. If enough such burdens are place on local building, developers will simply migrate their entrepreneurship, know-how, and capital to more profitable, unrelated industries that are unburdened by such arbitrary constraints.

    Having said all that, I think PMC is in the wrong in this case. The issue here is that they lied about their intentions. That gives them an unfair advantage over developers who didn't lie. Seems fair they should either have to pay $$$ to get out of the lie or have to stick with their bad faith promises.
     
    #4 Cro Burnham, Jun 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
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  5. Cro Burnham

    Cro Burnham Well-Known Member

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    Exactly - one more fact evidencing that lack of affordable housing is not a problem that private developers should be responsible for solving through dumb zoning trade-offs like this.

    City: do your job better and that will generate way more affordable housing access than these silly development linkages.

    This whole is issue is mainly a political football that enables politicians to score PR points and showboat to their constituents that they care about the poor when they really don't, and when they really don't have any decent practical ideas to address poverty in the city that don't involve over taxing a mobile professional class.
     
    #5 Cro Burnham, Jun 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  6. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    Pmc obeyed the law but the self righteous housing advocates still have their panties in a knot. The economic system has nothing to do with the city's decision to fritter away money rather than provide good schools (think of all the publicly funded projects that didn't involve schools) This deal makes a lot of sense, time to move on. Demand is indicating More waterfront development will occurred, lets,fix the zoning so adequately sized buildings don't need bonuses
     
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  7. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! They were in the wrong because they agreed to something for an advantage and then changed and used a loophole to get out of it. Affordable housing is unfortunately a national issue at this point. As wages have no0t risen with inflation since the 60s....

    Exactly. I couldn't agree more.

     
  8. borntochill

    borntochill Well-Known Member

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    I pretty much agree with Cro's assessment here, though my biggest problem with all of this is the city's continued piss-poor planning with respect to its waterfront as a public resource. If the city wants to extract public good demands from developers building on our waterfront, those demands should be about public access, the inclusion of more easily reachable parks and open spaces, restoration and maintenance of natural habitats, and so forth. Demanding affordable condos on the Delaware waterfront is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And don't get me started on developers like Blatstein wanting f***ing strip malls, parking lots and gas stations on the river. As if the ones we have already aren't embarrassing enough.
     
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  9. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Wait a minute!

    Who said anyone had any "rights" to a Center City type neighborhood, on other people's dimes?

    The fact is that there are plenty of affordable, walkable, neighborhoods, at least as safe or safer than the SWCC you recently left, with plenty of Septa connections, but they just don't have the cache' of CC and CC-adjacent neighborhoods.

    There are nice neighborhoods, in the NE, that are plenty safe, with Septa buses and connections to trains, the MFL, and the BSS. So it isn't a one-seat ride. There are plenty of NYC commutes that aren't one-seat rides and are longer than trying to get from the NE to CC. Oh, and newsflash, there are plenty of supermarkets and specialty markets that are part of walkable main streets as well. But we know....It's the NE, wah wah...

    The NW has similar affordable housing, with Septa connections, but not quite as much shopping.
     
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  10. The Count

    The Count Well-Known Member

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    This city is swimming, (scratch that), DROWNING in "affordable housing".
     
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  11. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    As I said we've had this discussion over and over. A walkable, safe city with great public transit and groceries etc is what it is to live in a great city. Without that people need cars and it's a vicious circle. This is a societal and philosophical problem that needs solving for all the reasons laid out above. Once you get outside CC the connections are not viable nights and weekends. There are places you simply can't get to on a sunday morning or even on the weekend via public transit. Places that are very close by car. Septa is in transition too from a commuter system to a system that is truly for a city where people aren't required to have cars.

    I object to these developers using the promise of supplying affordable housing units... (900 for a one berm is not affordable for most people on the lower end of the income bracket so they wouldn't be affordable away) and then using that promise to get permission to do one thing and then take it away.

    Regardless of whatever fantasy land you choose to live in affordable housing is a national issue as incomes have not kept up with inflation since the 60s.

    I believe if you live in a city you have a right to have it be a walkable neighborhood with public transport and decent healthy not overpriced groceries, a laundromat basic life stuff. Otherwise you might as well be in the suburbs where the public transport is generally scattered at best. We are a city in transition to a truly dense walkable city almost everywhere. We need mixed income housing in every neighborhood or the city is either for the very rich or the very poor who live in subsidized housing. We are lacking, as so many other places are in lower middle and lower class income city housing opportunities. There is an issue with not enough housing stock due to all of the above etc... it's a complicated issue and basically what was stated above said it much better than I can.

     
  12. Big Irish

    Big Irish Well-Known Member

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    My head just exploded.
     
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  13. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Well you just aren't looking hard enough, and admit that you want the snob appeal of being in or near Center City. Sorry, no one has to underwrite what many pay a premium for.

    And if you don't believe me:

    Google Maps

    Go a mile in any direction and tell me what you see. Healthy food options, plenty of other shopping, really interesting shopping too. More diversity than in many other neighborhoods, and oh yes, affordable.

    ALL MAJOR APPLIANCES*Near Cottman&Castor

    A very safe neighborhood, and this is half a block from Castor Avenue, where the 59 runs; 3 blocks from a big Acme and a big Target; half a mile from the Roosevelt Mall. Then there is the various shopping along Bustleton and Castor Avenues, and Cottman of course. Also, just about a mile from the Russian Market in Bell's Corner. It's safe and walkable--I walk it plenty, still. An area where having a car is not a necessity.
     
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  14. boognish

    boognish Well-Known Member

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    Say what now? You've never been to West Philadelphia for example?
     
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  15. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    I gotta say Gladys seems to be a bit of an extremist. Aside from the fact this building has neither a grocery store nearby nor particularly good transit Gladys feels entitled to a subsidized apartment there. Then the has the nerve to criticize the developer. Worst of all, the affordable housing crisis is complete by. Most studies including pew undermine the insane claim that Philly suffers from an affordable housing crisis. Nothing will get between Gladys and her entitlements though. Meanwhile philadelphia actually suffers from poor job creation and poverty including poor schools and other city services which reauore, you know, tax money. Wake me up when these affordable housing jokers give a shit about anyone besides themselves. End rant
     
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  16. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    That's a little extreme. I did not want an apartment in that building. I was angry because they promised to build so called affordable units to get something out of it and then reneged. I was not the only one you can google plenty of people upset. I did not say it was developer's responsibilities to do anything. That's what you read into it. IN this particular case this developer used a new offer to acquire something. said one thing and then did another. that's what I object to.

    I desire what everyone does.. I cannot live without a car easily in the outreaches of philly.

    Look it's a city. In a great city it should be walkable to basic amenities, relatively safe and great public transportation. The schedule I keep is often late night or very early mornings on the weekends and going to out to the place on Cotman is not possible. I did look ALL OVER though. when I was looking and I mean ALL. Torresdale. other places in the north east, west philly etc... If it was affordable it wasn't near enough to decent, frequent public transport, and/or it was a slum and/or a food desert. I found two places on the same day and am very happy. But there should be mixed housing in every neighborhood otherwise philly will be a city for the very rich or the very poor.

    I believe if we are to live in a city we are indeed entitled, all of us, to these things. Otherwise we might as well get a car and live in suburbia. I moved to a neighborhood, helped make its nicer and then was priced out for my trouble due in no small part to AVI the rent jumped $100 in one year. I searched and searched and the reason i didn't take a place where empty lots needed clean up and make it nicer was because the same thing would happen again. I'd make it nice then get priced out. The city needs more renter protection it's not in everyone's best interests to buy, google that too for examples. I don't know exactly what more renter protection means or should look like but Philly is becoming very classist. Doesn't have to be. It is choosing to be. If that makes me extreme than so be it, those are the things everyone needs to survive well. In the best sense of the word we are all entitled to the pursuit of happiness. In this day and age having basic amenities, transportation and relative safety in a city that is transitioning from car to public transport, is essential.

     
    #16 Gladys, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  17. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Horseshit. If we were to buy in the neighborhood where we now live, today, we wouldn't be able to afford it. And as such, I would live elsewhere (like I used to), where I could afford to live (like I used to). It's just that simple.
     
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  18. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is, But you shouldn't have to after being there so long.
     
  19. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    You are old enough to know that there are no "shoulds" in life. Shit happens. Nothing is static.
     
  20. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    You are old enough to know that nothing changes in life unless people call for it.
     
  21. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    The difference is that you're expecting people to underwrite a particular lifestyle when you know there are many options.
     
  22. hkp

    hkp Señor Member

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    Irrelevant.
     
  23. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    For this particular issue? Perhaps. In the overall scheme of housing in Philadelphia? Absolutely not.
     
  24. Alley

    Alley Well-Known Member

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  25. Gladys

    Gladys Well-Known Member

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    Its not about me wanting anyone to underwrite a life style. How can I be clear so that you will hear what I say and not what you think I am saying. there are many ways to make housing more affordable. Something, clean no granite counter tops or stainless steel whatever. basic clean comfortable, safe well built housing. One unit can be less than another in a building simply by the amenities it contains. All Cro said above this is a societal issue at large. I'm not saying every deserved to live a wealthy lifestyle, Not in the least. and not that people need to do so on others dimes. I don't know the answers. Smarter people than me have to figure it out. But I do know that in a country like this we can do a lpt better, When someone gives their heart and soul and develops a life in a neighborhood they shouldn't have to leave because their work paid off. How i don't know. The system is broken. but somehow it can be fixed. There is no need to accept the status quo. That's all I'm saying.
     
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