PHL Airport discussion (flights, routes, construction, etc.)

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Transportation & SEPTA' started by BenDee, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
  2. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
  3. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
  4. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    On Nov. 4, Southwest will be resuming nonstop flights between Houston Hobby (HOU) and PHL, but only flown on Sunday. Sunday is the day people travel home, but it's still rather peculiar for Southwest, almost Frontier like addition to do a weekly on this route rather than daily.
    Southwest Airlines Extends Flight Schedule Through Early 2019
     
    #124 dontforget, May 31, 2018
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  5. phillyaggie

    phillyaggie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    6,788
    Likes Received:
    73
    I terribly miss the non-stop flight to HOU... my parents live there still and so I visit from time to time. For the past couple years at least it's been a long day of travel to get there, and same for coming back.

    I'll take at least the Sunday option. But you're right, it should be daily... WTF!
     
  6. phillyaggie

    phillyaggie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2008
    Messages:
    6,788
    Likes Received:
    73
  7. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    I didn't see this posted here, although this is two weeks old:
    Nonstop Delta service from Boston to Philadelphia coming Oct. 1

    While this addition is good, there is a deletion as well. Delta will be discontinuing the JFK connection service on 9/30. I guess that will mean some will just have to drive up to JFK for certain international markets.
     
  8. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
  9. New2Fishtown

    New2Fishtown Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    328
    Likes Received:
    53
    Question for international travel pros: Qatar Airways looks like a fantastic airline and the Doha airport looks spectacular, which makes the idea of routing a long-distance trip through them appealing. Is Doha a logical/advantageous place to layover en route to points farther east? Is it competitive in terms of length of itinerary, or would a Philadelphian seeking to go to India, Thailand, Japan, etc always be better served booking something direct through New York and/or flying west rather than east? I imagine it depends on the destination, but curious if anyone's used the PHL to DOH flight for a trip that did not involve the Middle East as an end point, and if so, what your thoughts are on the experience.
     
  10. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,229
    Likes Received:
    275
    despite my serious reservations about supporting the Qatari government (QA is 100% government owned), I looked into it to fly to Malaysia, and ended up using Delta/Korean Air through Atlanta based on cost, timing, and convenience.
     
  11. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Messages:
    16,061
    Likes Received:
    776
    You seem to fly in and out of Philadelphia as well. I really loathe having to go to NY to do some traveling.
     
  12. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,229
    Likes Received:
    275
    Yes. Sometimes I'll do Newark, although at the end of a lengthy trip, even that train ride seems like more trouble than it is worth, but both LaGuardia and JFK are a PITA to get to/from at any time of day or night, and particularly now with LaGuardia under construction, even with layovers, I'm content to fly to an international hub airport such as ATL, ORD or DFW to head overseas.
     
    Hospitalitygirl likes this.
  13. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    Some seasonal international market changes from American Airlines for 2019:
    http://s21.q4cdn.com/616071541/file...nt-and-Modifies-Asia-Service-GUIDE-082118.pdf

    Berlin, Germany (TXL) gets seasonal summer service next year. It's already daily from Newark (EWR). Notably, though Munich gets cut from PHL or is technically transferred to Charlotte. Frankfurt is already covered by Lufthansa.

    I'm sure most headed regularly to Germany fly United and/or Lufthansa, partner Star Alliance carriers, already and American is just picking some of the summer tourist market but less of the business market.
     
    #133 dontforget, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
  14. Titus

    Titus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    2,297
    Likes Received:
    220
    My niece and her family recently flew to and from Perth, Australia on Qatar Airlines stopping in Doha - they found it to be an exceptionally convenient and comfortable way to travel.
     
  15. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    789
    Likes Received:
    164
    I’ve noticed that in recent annual enplanement lists, PHL has fallen a few spots. Does anybody know what this is due to? Maybe the phase out of US Air is the cause?
     
  16. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    When I look at May 2017 to May 2018, it shows 1.81% change. American did cut down the number of banks in PHL after US Air.
    American will trim some flights as part of 'rebanking' its PHL hub

    Routes have been added and other have been deleted, with Tel Aviv most notable of being deleted. But American has been able to add markets like Grand Rapids, Madison and Mexico City kind of bringing it's network strength in, where US Airways was weaker out in those areas of North America, or it relied on partner carriers. American has trimmed JFK more while committing to PHL as it's Trans-Atlantic gateway. Perhaps it's rank has slipped as other airports have gained more over this time.

    In general, it's kind of hard to tell by American, since it controls so much but often with high fares and monopoly routes, it can suppress demand, so I look at the competing airlines.

    The best competition PHL had was when Southwest in PHL was over 60 daily departures. Those days are long gone, but it does seem like carriers like Spirit, JetBlue, and Alaska have added a few flights into PHL lately. I can't tell with Frontier as it adds then drops less than daily seasonal routes too often, but it adds to something.

    Notably, this November, Spirit and Frontier will have 3 flights between PHL and MCO (Orlando), and Southwest will have 4. That's 10 flights that are available as an alternative from going with the largest carrier, that is American's flights out of PHL. Orlando is PHL's top destination. I think this is more seats than what Southwest and AirTran offered against US Airways, say ten years ago, but I'm not sure.
     
    #136 dontforget, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  17. ODragon

    ODragon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    99
    FWIW, I took Alaska to Portland, Oregon from PHL recently. It was a really nice flight with no layover. A little early departure time but then again, it did get me there around 9:45 am so I did have a full day there. I would take Alaska again and was happy to have another carrier there that I am willing to take.
     
  18. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    the number of passengers is definitely down. American has been really awful from my perspective. old planes, disgruntled employees, fewer non-stop options for routes I fly. we've started flying out of other airports but anecdotally I've noticed our family is flying out of Newark a lot more often both internationally and domestically (usually jet blue). we split time between Newark, phl, and bwi. not a rush for the exits but it explains the marginal loss in passengers. PHL is also pretty slow to upgrade and has been slow to boost their ancillary business as compared with other airports but like SEPTA, they're getting there.
    https://www.phl.org/Documents/AboutPHL/PHL_facts.pdf
     
  19. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    fiveomar likes this.
  20. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    Southwest still services PHL although not at it's all time high in terms of daily departures. My suggestion is if you like Southwest is to support Southwest at PHL.

    After 1/7/2019, United Express will be ceasing PHL-IAD service.

    This flight was primarily for connections into the Dulles hub, but it's understandable to some extent why United no longer will offer it. It has non-existant O&D value. PHL has nonstops to most popular destinations for the Philly region already - granted on another airline (American), but United was really only attracting passengers looking for lower fares on a connection which is likely just pulling less profitable passengers. United can steer connecting pax that were flying PHL-IAD-LAX onto PHL-DEN/ORD/IAH-LAX, for example. And others that might have been loyal to United and flying to Europe, via a Dulles connection, will get a ride or Amtrak ticket up to Newark and fly United nonstop from there. In the end, that's better for EWR O&D passenger numbers.

    I remember a couple years ago I chose a flight with a Dulles connection: United was offering decent PHL-IAD-PIT fares, while the nonstop from American was at highway robbery fares. For that type of route, connecting in ORD will be more backtrack and less likely a decent connection fare since United will select other markets for offering competitive fares - likely markets over a 400 mile distance from PHL.

    United cut BWI-EWR not too long ago, likely because of similar principle (low O&D value, pax can drive to IAD). I wonder how long MDT-IAD will last, given that Harrisburg is a pretty short distance from Dulles as well, and likely those from Central PA flying to the South/Southeast US will be either flying Delta or American with bigger hubs/more frequencies to the final destinations, or driving down to BWI for better fares.
     
    #140 dontforget, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  21. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    American Airlines adding flights from Erie to Charlotte, Chicago, dropping Philly

    While service to Charlotte and Chicago from Erie is more ideal for domestic connections to points west and Florida, I believe American suppressed natural O&D between Philly and Erie, with it's high fares. It's $454 for a round trip fare over one month in advance. There are only so many business passengers and I suppose not enough on this route willing to pay that. Fare were too high for everyone else. The Erie market was likely also too small for usage of PHL international connections.
     
    #141 dontforget, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  22. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    this isn't just about erie, they are shifting passengers away from PHL. after posting passenger growth in 2015, PHL lost 4% in 2016 and 2% in 2017
    I would think that BWI would be the main airport for central PA and that airport has seen consistent growth (enough to wonder whether it will overtake PHL). It might behoove the state to fund train service directly from HAR (Harrisburg Amtrak) to PHL so that people can park at MDT (Middletown, Harrisburg Airport) or Lancaster and take the train directly to PHL. It's getting harder to justify flying out of PHL for me (leisure not business). I've flown as many times out of TTN as PHL in the last couple of years.
     
  23. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    American is adding direct flight service to Asheville, NC and Chattanooga, TN from PHL:
    American Airlines adding two new domestic flights at PHL in 2019

    These new markets are more touristy than Erie, for certain, and longer distance, less drive-able from the Philly area. American also will service to SRQ (Sarasota) after Frontier started it and Melbourne, FL.

    But, American is overflying it's CLT hub out of those. Asheville is large enough, but I wonder in general about the approach of multiple hubs from same carrier in very minor markets.

    With the Erie cut:
    a. American won't keep one flight/day from Erie to Philly (intra state market). I believe O&D remained small with highway robbery fares. I suppose some will just drive to PIT or CLE than fly out of ERI without service to the Northeast and PHL.
    b. If Erie is a small market from point a., and it's the 102nd largest CSA not even 400k residents, why does American replace PHL with two markets, Charlotte and Chicago that replaces Philly? Delta doesn't offer service to it's mega hub, Atlanta, but only Detroit.
     
    #143 dontforget, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  24. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    American is adding Chicago service to/from Allentown (ABE), directly competing against United's service:
    Increased Flights From ABE to Chicago | Lehigh Valley International Airport (ABE)

    This is good for those living in the Lehigh Valley, as well as passengers from here that fly to Chicago and have another option. I kind of wish American would offer Charlotte/CLT service out of ACY, or United would offer Dulles/IAD but ACY is viewed as too close to PHL, apparently.

    I don't think Harrisburg would want to screw MDT air service intentionally, and focus it to be a parking lot for train riders into PHL. Anyways, the Septa R1 isn't too bad of a connection between the airport and Amtrak 30th St. It runs twice every hour. When I miss a train by 5 mins, and not willing to wait 25 mins, I just use Uber or Lyft and it's pretty inexpensive to heading to downtown. Anyways, doesn't Amtrak have a proposal for a PHL stop?

    With all the short haul cuts (lately from United, including PHL-IAD), I do wonder how long American will keep MDT-PHL service as it's somewhat duplicative to the Keystone Line where it's pretty inexpensive to get a seat. I think MDT-PHL service is useful for those who fly MDT-PHL-BOS if American is making enough money from those itineries. A CLT or ORD connection only as options from American, will not be well liked to head Northeast. It will just steer Central PA passengers to drive down to BWI for a direct BWI-BOS in this case.
     
    #144 dontforget, Nov 3, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  25. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    Amtrak once stopped at the airport when it ran the AC Line. The only reason they would go there is if PennDOT Wanted them to. People are less willing to transfer with baggage (and rule of thumb is that you lose half the ridership with a seat change without baggage). FWIW, once the new MID station opens there will be a shuttle between the airport parking, airport, and train station regardless of whether Keystone trains go to the airport or not. What PennDOT would be doing is realizing they are never going to beat PHL and BWI and making it easier for people to use PHL (whereas driving wise, BWI is easier).
    Second, there is a long term proposal that has Amtrak stopping at the airport for NEC trains. That's not a PennDOT project but would ultimately be good for PHL though utility is limited due to Amtrak prices. BWI is incredibly easy but the train fare eats up a lot of savings, the one exception is EWR where united has a deal with Amtrak.
     
  26. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    Do you mean Amtrak once stopped at MDT or PHL? From 30th St? If so, why was this access cut?

    On another note, I do see myBWI advertising in the Philly area. Shouldn't PHL advertise itself in Maryland to compete if BWI is actively poaching in the Philly region. I think PHL can be attractive for Marylanders for international service, especially to Europe/connections to India, and where Qatar has reasonable service, and an alternative to driving to Dulles which is more traffic intensive. (Although Dulles has more flights/better service to most international markets). A friend of mine once wanted a business class seat to India, but was looking for the least expensive business class seat as she was paying out of her money. I helped her find a ticket from Lufthansa out of PHL as it was cheaper than originating at one of the DC airports. It's not a typical use case, but PHL's international service is far better than BWI's.
     
  27. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    Phl, it was part of amtrak's atlantic city service and was cut along with the entire service. Yes I'd agree phl should compete with Dulles
     
  28. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    26
    Do you know by which terminal Amtrak stopped at PHL? I see from the wikipedia Atlantic City Line article, it's mentioned. Too bad it was eliminated as it would have been useful as a stop and helped prevented PHL leakage that goes to BWI and EWR.

    It'd be ideal if Amtrak stopped by the international terminal (Terminal A). Given the short distances of BWI-PHL and MDT-PHL, I think these links are only necessary for international (with maybe MDT-PHL for BOS as well). While Lehigh Valley is not near Amtrak, I wonder how long ABE-PHL will stay around as a connection feeder service.
     
    #148 dontforget, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:41 AM
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018 at 10:48 AM
  29. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Messages:
    23,005
    Likes Received:
    383
    I'll see what I can find out about how it operated. At this point either the new alignment with an airport stop gets built or it would have to come from penndot as an extension of the keystone or a new state supported service to reading or Allentown.
     

Share This Page