Philly DA Office is a Hot Mess

Discussion in 'Local and State' started by Jayfar, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    FWIW I'm personally far more interested in the impact of the new DA's approach over the rest of 2018 than I am about any potential/imaginary impact so far of someone like George Soros. If however we get to the end of the year and crimes are down, then I'll gladly retract my pessimism.
     
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  2. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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  3. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    'If the data contradicts me, I'll retract my prediction'? Not sure what the takeaway is from such a bold stance.

    And whether crime increases or decreases by the end of the year will not be solely due to changes in the DA's office in any case.
     
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  4. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Simply stating that I'm willing to take a fact-based view, not an ideological one. I'm not asking for a pat on the back here.

    Of course it will also depend on the weather and how much Soros invests...
     
  5. O.H. Lee

    O.H. Lee Well-Known Member

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    Not solely on the DA’s Office, but they have to do their part. All of the prevention and enforcement will not work without prosecution. In my opinion Krasner wants nothing to do with prosecution. There is an ebb and flow especially to homicides. I still believe we will unfortunately see an upswing.
     
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  6. O.H. Lee

    O.H. Lee Well-Known Member

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    Your homicide number is now below 7% and could go positive with one violent weekend.
     
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  7. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes, when your annual homicide rate hovers at about 300, you could say that pretty much any time during the first half of the year. It doesn't change the existing facts.

    And, as noted above, the DA is not necessarily in control of the crime rate. When people like or hate the Police Captain, its his fault/success; when they like or hate the mayor, its his fault/success; when they like or hate the DA, its his/her fault/success. A few potentially relevant statistics in this regard might be how many crimes are committed by people out on bail, or how many crimes are committed by people who were undercharged and released earlier than otherwise (although this latter, as related to Krasner, we won't really see for at least 2 or 3 years).

    I also wonder how many times a DA had to offer a plea with no or reduced jail time because the DA knew it couldn't call one or more of police officers because they were on the "do not call" list, or how many in jail will now be retried and released because of it. ("The list" now, in particular, explains Richard Sax's outburst a few years ago, when he was forced to cover for the fact that the cop who had taken a confession that the witness denied making was on the "do not call" list).

    All of those things are and will be relevant to the crime stats, not just how Krasner is running the DA's office.
     
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  8. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Shosh, I do have to agree with you on this. That's common sense. I think the issue that many of us have specific to the DA's office is that Krasner is so far off the norm from how a DA normally prosecutes that he will have an outsized impact on those stats.

    Couple that with Drunk Jim and the poverty pimps in council, and there is a legit fear that something like this could happen to Philly:

    Tidal Wave Of Baltimore Restaurant Closures Unfolds Into Crisis

    We're nowhere near that dire of a situation of course, but all it takes is a few incidents causing some momentum in the crime rate for things to snowball.
     
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  9. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    It's almost like some people want things to go to shit, just to validate a political opinion. It's so bizarre.

    Several of the restaurants listed in the piece have replacements named already. How is that at all indicative of a 'crisis'? Some of them are bad chains that overexpanded (Dino BBQ, Tilted Kilt). One of them closed because of a fire. But that's still lumped in with this 'crisis'. Additionally, several other reasons beyond crime are discussed as drivers of the closures.

    This isn't to say that Baltimore doesn't have any problems, but I just don't understand this "next Detroit!!!1" undercurrent that pops up after every little negative thing that happens in this city. And in this case, it isn't even a negative thing that happened since violent crime is down.

    You seriously have a 'legit fear' that restaurants are going to up and leave the city?
     
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  10. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Successful world-class cities don't sit on their hands and accept status quo. As just one example, fast forward to the point at which Millenials start having kids in larger numbers, then you'll see an exodus to the suburbs since we can't seem to get our schools in order. Crime follows things like that.
     
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  11. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    No one is arguing that nothing should be done about any problem. But the status quo in the context of this discussion is a reduction in violent crime. I am sure you don't mean to say that is unacceptable.

    Your 'legit fear' is based on millennial flight, then?
     
  12. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, um, the election of Krasner was **exactly** rebelling against the "status quo." It sounds like what you really want is the old status quo back.
     
  13. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    The old status quo was the same people hand-wringing about how flash mobs were going to drive restaurants and residents out of the city.
     
  14. fiveomar

    fiveomar Well-Known Member

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    Or how about just having a legitimate (experienced, high ethics) DA like Joe Khan would have been (a Democrat, btw). That is not status quo at all compared to Seth Williams.

    Joe Khan's pitch to be Philly's next DA: 'Only in America'
     
  15. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    I was actually a Negrin supporter myself. But that wasn't my point ... my point is that it is absurd to yell and scream about how we need to upset the "status quo" in the DAs office when that's exactly what we did.
     
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  16. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Ok I see what you mean about status quo. I wasn't talking about the regressive Lynn Abraham version of that...I don't support that either. My point about status quo wasn't specific to the subject of the DA election, but can see in hindsight how that wasn't clear. I was typing quickly.

    On the DA subject, I totally agree that the Negrins and Khans of the world would have been FAR preferable to Krasner.
     
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  17. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    I'm not ready to go that FAR. That is, my preference was for a liberal, but more traditional, DA, but I'm not ready to write off Krasner as necessarily a horrible choice; it is just too early to tell. His brand of justice may indeed be exactly what we need if we are going to progress beyond simply locking up black folk and throwing away the key, while merely slapping white folk on the wrists.
     
  18. fiveomar

    fiveomar Well-Known Member

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    Too extreme. It's possible to upset the status quo without having an extremist DA.

    By your logic, no one should be upset that Trump is in office and doing what he's doing because he shook up the status quo. I despise both Trump and Hillary, btw. The two worst Presidential candidates in the history of the US, because of our closed primary system alienating independent voters (read: the smart ones) not being able to truly participate.

    What we need from both parties is moderate candidates who don't stay beholden to their party (who are logical, common sense, and independent thinkers). The only way to change that is by having open primaries, or top-two primaries, and ending gerrymandering.
     
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  19. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    "By your logic" is usually just another way of saying "Here, look at this strawman I have created".

    Independents are so smart, but they can't figure out how to vote in primaries?
     
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  20. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Your premise is beyond laughable. "Simply locking up black folk and throwing away the key, while merely slapping white folk on the wrists". Pathetic. And patently false.
     
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  21. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    OK, how about "Simply arresting black folks for being black and using planted evidence and perjured testimony to convict them."
     
  22. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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  23. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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  24. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    That these events occur does not mean they represent the whole criminal justice system. Should go without saying that they need to be corrected and prevented from occurring, but this is 2018.
     
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  25. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, did you miss the whole Starbucks incident? And why, when people yell and scream about how the City spends its money, they don't yell and scream about how much this misconduct costs us:

    Philly paying millions to resolve allegations of police misconduct

    I mean, **there was an entire list of cops that DAs knew were too crooked to put on the stand, and yet they continued to pursue cases and convictions involving those cops.**

    Love him or hate him, Krasner is bent on changing the DA's culture of the winning at any cost and of vengeance rather than justice. I, for one, hope he succeeds.
     
  26. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing in any way that there aren't problems to be fixed.
     
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  27. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    The "Starbucks Incident" was not a case of police nor prosecutorial overreach but something that happened as a result of a particular store's reaction to two men. Let's not discuss the other black people sitting in there at that time. Let's not even discuss how someone was able to capture the entire incident on her phone (complete with some serious rumors about how the whole thing was staged) to make some bullshit point of yours. It's not just the poor little black and brown people that are unfairly picked on by the *system*, but a lot of people that are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and how their actions are what determine outcomes.

    Krasner's intent is to create a second PD's Office, since he just doesn't think that anyone should be punished ever, and he's so far becoming quite successful.

    How much time have you spent in criminal courtrooms, Shosh? I bet it's a fraction of the time I've spent in them.
     
  28. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Funny how you mention "vengeance" since the most vengeful occupant of that office is none other than the petty, little, man sitting there now.
     
  29. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:
     

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