PA Ballet Move..finally

Discussion in 'Fairmount / Spring Garden / Francisville' started by eldondre, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. AbortedWalrus

    AbortedWalrus Well-Known Member

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    Maybe people see something I don't. It's a utilitarian structure with just enough embellishment to make it not look completely plain. Seems so run of the mill.
     
  2. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    Without the plaza, they would have to destroy both buildings to have the studio the exact dimensions of the Academy of Music stage. Its the compromise of having the plaza facing Broad and having the studio behind it and the other building faceing Broad.


    If that building was shorter they could have keep BOTH building and this would be moot, bu its not and it in the way of the new studio.

    They could sell that land and go somewhere else. but there goes outside forces telling people what they can do with the land they own. Its ok for this, but not the mural of a autumn tree?
     
  3. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    people 100 years ago would be appalled to learn the new federal income tax was used to demolish perfectly good buildings with no plan to to something useful. and would tax money be used for this back then?

    meh, it's a nice building that is more remarkable than what they are proposing in its place, the wear and tear is on them since the've owned it since 2007.

    not really, it's not an eye sore. the divine lorraine is now an eyesore, this building is not. needless to say, I don't see how you think that way at all. I see two buildings, both relatively nice, one a bit more than the other, that is but a small bit left over from better times, you know, when the broad st hotel was across the street instead of a surface lot...and when the viaduct carried job producing goods and people.
     
  4. billy ross

    billy ross Well-Known Member

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    Your complaint is about the funding devoted by the government to attempt to save old buildings; my claim is about how many buildings Philly has saved and continues to save. One does not necessarily lead to the other, otherwise Philly would have much less of a poverty issue than Seattle does, for instance. Our culture is one of keeping old buildings around, even if they're shabby. Whenever I leave Philadelphia I am amazed at the attitude of 'It looks shabby - we need to fix it or demolish it.' In Philadelphia our culture is to do neither, and eventually we get around to fixing stuff up, like those places I mentioned earlier. Still, they generally go shabby for decades between the time they're new and the time they're restored. I don't think that shabbiness bothers Philadelphians. Our culture is that we'd rather have a shabby Jaguar or old Cadillac where we're constantly fighting the ravages of time than a series of brand-new but deathly dull Toyotas that we continually crush everytime they live their design lives.
     
    #34 billy ross, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2011
  5. BBQ KING

    BBQ KING Well-Known Member

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    Questions

    If they can't tear down this building then they can't create the practice space needed to replicate the performance site? Correct?
    If not here, where would they go?

    I like having an arts district and I like seeing N Broad part of it. I have this vision of the PA ballet perhaps having classes or events at the new place; maybe adding some "speed to the snow ball" of positive change on N Borad (at least positive from my perspective). Maybe the dedication of the building could include shutting down the block and having a performance.

    Is there another piece of land within this "arts district" they could develop? If not, the building should go. N Borad has seen rougher days and this building helps reduce the chance that those rougher days returning.
     
  6. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    the surface lots to the north and across the street have signs "available for development."
     
  7. Voodoo

    Voodoo ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫

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    I seem to recall plans for a mega parking garage where the Reading Terminal stands today.
    I seem to recall there were many preservationists opposed to it's demolition.
    I seem to recall Ed Bacon saying "Fuk You" to the preservationists.
    I seem to recall preservationists filing lawsuits to stop the demolition.
    I seem to recall Chinatown residents circling the building with signs to protest it's demolition.
    I seem to recall the city eventually backing down from the demolition because the residents stood up for it's preservation.

    Are you remembering things differently, or are you just making sh!t up?
     
  8. Insoluble

    Insoluble Well-Known Member

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    In the tree mural example a surface parking lot is being replaced with a useful building. In this example a building is being replaced with what is essentially an empty lot. I mean, it's not exactly like there's a great need for open space right here. I understand that their space requirements necessitate building the practice space behind the existing structure, and that they don't necessarily have the money to do much else with this space other than make it a plaza. But you have to admit it's disappointing. I wouldn't personally try to do anything to derail this development, but I'm not going to pretend that I wouldn't be happier if they decided to build this on one of numerous surface lots immediately surrounding this.
     
  9. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    even if they built a one story building there with commercial space it would be an improvement....and might help bring a little more life to that stretch of north broad.
    voodoo-really? is there anywhere I can read about that story? I knew the convention ctr folks wanted to get rid of the market, but I didn't know there were plans to knock the whole bldg down. really a crime that they stopped service there. unlike the highline in ny, the reading terminal and viaduct became obsolete because of poor decisions.
     
  10. billy ross

    billy ross Well-Known Member

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    But the last time I checked the Reading Terminal was still there. So is the Reading Viaduct. That's exactly my point. We're willing to let stuff sit and molder for decades; we don't have a scorched earth mentality like other American cities do. Not everything makes it, but much, much stuff does. The Royal Theater. The Trocadero (1857). The Academy of Music (1857). We're masters of letting something like the Bathey House in East Falls sit for over half a lifetime then finally getting around to bringing it back to life.

    I've been spending alot of time of late going from Boathouse Row through the Waterworks along the Schyulkill River Trail. I only recently discovered that the semi-decrepit fountain downstream of the Waterworks is the selfsame fountain in all of those old drawings and paintings; the scenes of Boathouse Row and of the Waterworks from long, long ago are extremely recognizable to anyone who knows those spaces today. Philadelphia is unique in this regard. Spend some time getting to know Germantown and your mind will be blown about how old things there are, even if they're falling down (slowly).
     
    #40 billy ross, Dec 12, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  11. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    This is what I can agree with. Tho I understand why the designer went with this over a one story building(They hate those) sometimes you gotta think out of that design thinking...
     
  12. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    I look at Time Square as something that is a mix of keeping old buildings and the scorched earth mentality. I think we can do that.
     
  13. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an engineer so I won't say if it's feasible, but keeping the front part of the building and leasing it it out to a restaurant (most likely imo) might also work. I really don't like the destruction of a decent urban building for a plaza....esp in that location...even if it's the designers obsession. like those building in francisville, I don't love the idea of shared access driveway instead of a private outdoor space but I understand why they did it, it meets code and the neighborhood's guidelines. this makes a bit less sense imo
     
  14. Voodoo

    Voodoo ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫

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    Full text of "Historic structures in the redevelopment process Market Street East, Philadelphia"

    The project of 1960 incorporates plans for transportation, retail and
    commercial space, and pedestrian movement. It also contains, as an
    objective, a commuter connection for the two suburban rail lines serving the
    city. Physically, this plan calls for the construction of a series of new
    buildings on the north side of Market Street, from Ninth to Twelfth Streets.
    This new development would necessitate the demolition of all buildings on
    these blocks, including the Reading Terminal and Head House.^^ j\^q City
    Planning Commission was aware of historically significant structures, they
    not include the Reading Terminal and Head House among them.
     
  15. Voodoo

    Voodoo ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫

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    Only because some farsighted individuals fought against the city to protect it. The city did {however} still manage to rape a good portion of Market East anyway. Just like they raped North Broad Street and the Delaware riverfront.
     
  16. mixiboi

    mixiboi Philly Remixed

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    That is what cities do when things become obsolete and in the way....Tho some things were force on us(I-95) unlike other cities(NYC) but even they "raped" parts of there city for the better(or worst on who you asked).
     
  17. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    or at least when politicians believe things are obsolete and, more importantly, have someone else's money (usually federal, in ny's case, robert moses' toll money) to spend on projects to benefit friends and supporters (connected developers and trades unions). on north broad they simply leveled blocks and blocks with no plan at all, we lost run down but grand buildings and gained nothing. would the city have done the same with its own money or did urban renewal funds make the decision to play specualtive sim city with a real live city make the difference?
     
  18. hammersklavier

    hammersklavier A Fortnight Dead

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    There are ways to preserve the façade (and it's the façade that's important here, not the interior structure) without spending a whole lot of money. You can stabilize the façade and:

    1. Turn the space behind it into an interior court (better than a plaza)
    2. Erect a metal-and-glass roof and turn it into an entrance atrium (that's a pretty neat idea)
    3. Carve the bottom floor(s) into a lobby and use the upper floors for storage, or possibly studios of some sort

    Etc...

    The point being that it's not impossible to get the rehearsal space they need while at the same time preserving the façade.

    Going for a plaza along that stretch of N. Broad would just create an unnecessary façade gap...in terms of the overall aesthetics of the plan, it's far, far better to keep the ensemble together.
     
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  19. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    As it turns out these aholes are tearing down both broad at buildings
     
  20. eldondre

    eldondre Well-Known Member

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    You could not have been more wrong. Since this rather attractive building waqs demod it's been a fenced off site. The very definition of an eyesore. Nice they are going to demo the more attractive lack Packard building next to it because it's run by a bunch of small minded hacks .
     
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