No time for Collusion - We Are The CHAMPIONS of the World - Philadelphia Eagles

Discussion in 'National' started by Phillyxpat, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    This is simply not true. At all. She remembers who was there, what room she was in, what was done to her and how it was done. She remembers all of the salient details that a victim would remember.
     
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  2. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone find it odd that Ford agreed to testify on September 20th, and Kavanaugh didn't agree till the 24th? Why aren't republican's pushing for Mark Judge to testify either? You'd think Kavanaugh would support Mark Judge testifying? And shouldn't Kavanaugh support an FBI investigation as well to clear his name?

    I find those points, inconsistent with the idea that she is lying and he isn't. It seems like he's just hoping this blows over. While not an exact science, the stats on false accusations in regards to rape are statistically very low. 2-10%

    I don't have an issue with the spotty memory either. I had a night over 20 years ago where I wasn't drinking, but ended up in a fatal car crash. I remember just the highlights with spotty memory and the trauma with clear memory. 9/11 and the Oklahoma Bombing are much the same. Also, if it's so apparent, why is Whelan making all that nutty stuff up? Why is their an active smear campaign on her?

    PR firm helped Whelan stoke half-baked Kavanaugh alibi

    There are 3 allegations I've seen on snopes that they debunked.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/christine-blasey-ford-not-my-president/
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brett-kavanaugh-foreclosure-accuser-parents/
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blasey-online-photos/

    and then there's the meme floating around on facebook, saying that on March 17th, Ford wrote that someone has to make a false accusation of rape on Kavanaugh.
     
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  3. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    And now a possible third accuser surfaces…
     
  4. wollstonecraft

    wollstonecraft Well-Known Member

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    "Oh my, look at all of the details you can recall despite suppressing memories for years. I understand only too well, and that is my problem with her story. She has no recollection of anything except that she was 15."

    She remembers that she went upstairs alone in the house to use the bathroom. She says that Kavanaugh and Mark Judge grabbed her and pulled her into the bedroom and tossed her onto a bed. She remembers Kavanaugh turning up the music and putting his hand over her mouth. She remembers him on top of her and thrusting on her (I don't think that's the exact word) while trying to remove her clothing. She remembers thinking, "I thought he might inadvertently kill me." She remembers Judge saying to Kavanaugh, "Go for it." She remembers Judge climbing on top of her along with Kavanaugh and that they all fell off the bed, which was when she escaped. How is that "no recollection"?

    In High School I had my breasts grabbed and squeezed by two different boys on two separate occasions. I couldn't tell you the location, time, date, surroundings. I recall vividly how the squeezing felt, how I wriggled to get away, how revulsed, humiliated, outraged, and helpless I felt. I remember their leering smirks. I remember their names. I remember one of them saying, "I WILL do this again."

    I never told a soul. No girl in that school would have dared. The stigma and shame silenced me. I knew it would be he said/she said; being taunted and worse by the boys in the school; having adults saying "You're making it up," "It's just boys feeling their oats," "What did you do to encourage him," "It's your own fault for getting into that situation."

    I'm 66YO now and only began speaking about it very recently, with the #MeToo movement. I still have trouble getting the words out of my mouth.

    I want to see due process. But privately, I believe her. She took a lie detector test and she's calling for an FBI investigation. People who are lying usually don't do that.
     
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  5. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    First of all, I am sorry to hear about your experience. Same goes to OldMama and her experience. No one should have to deal with that.

    I get enraged when I hear things like this from my fellow conservatives. No, this is NOT just boys feeling their oats. I had an experience like this in college where it was clear the other party was becoming uncomfortable, and I stopped. We stopped and talked about it and agreed not to go further. There was no question in my mind that was the right thing to do. Also to deflect the blame onto the victim is the lowest of the low, and rejection of this ridiculous mindset should be the standard no matter what your political leaning.

    I have heard from others that much of this is due to the death of chivalry as a practice, and that it was killed by feminism. I am not sure I buy that completely, although there's probably at least a nugget of a discussion in there on that topic at some other time.

    The issue now is that not only are Ford's third-party witnesses (including her best friend) saying that they didn’t see Kavanaugh assault her, they haven’t even agreed that he was at the party. I find it difficult to believe on those merits.
     
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  6. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Trump boasts of America's might, draws headshakes at UN | Associated Press

    Five sentences into the president's remarks, the audience began to chuckle and some leaders broke into outright laughter, suggesting the one-time reality television star's puffery is as familiar abroad as it is at home. Appearing briefly flustered, Trump smiled and joked that it was not the reaction he expected "but that's all right."
     
  7. Elliott87

    Elliott87 Well-Known Member

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    Would you agree that to put this to rest, both parties should take a polygraph test? I know she had already taken one, but in all fairness it would be wise to synchronize the questions.

    I know polygraphs are not admissible in court, but this is not a court case. No one is saying that he would/should be prosecuted for a 35 year old crime, with limited evidence, but they are used extensively in government situations when applying for jobs, or checking out a rumor about you if you have a high security clearance. It is possible he took one during the run up to his nomination, but direct questions about this affair were not asked.

    If Kavanaugh passes with flying colors, he walks into his SC job with no questions, and vindicated, as he did all he could do. If he fails miserably, deceit is a good enough reason to bar someone from the SC. Anything in the middle would be used by Senators to make up their mind.He would still have his federal judgeship, so he is not being thrown out in the street.

    If I was Kavanaugh, and I knew I was innocent, I would insist on the test. Wouldn't You?
     
  8. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I don't know if polygraphs necessarily solve this problem. They test for whether you believe what you are saying, not whether what you are saying is accurate.

    With that said, I'm not entirely against the idea. especially if a successful polygraph does indeed allow him to walk into the SC job with no questions. However I have a hunch it wouldn't.
     
  9. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Are you talking about the Avenatti client?
     
  10. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Maybe. Honestly I've only been following this whole thing peripherally. I would suspect that if the 3rd person is getting cold feet that would really be not so much be a function of the veracity of her claims, more a matter of realizing what she's in for if she goes public.
     
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  11. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Rumor on the street is that Avenatti was actually hoaxed by 4chan. Eager to hear the truth...what a shitshow.
     
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  12. Elliott87

    Elliott87 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone on the right so far, including Dershowitz, have repeatedly said Avenatti couldn't possibly know what he said he knew, and every time he has been proven right. Like him or not, he is a shrewd lawyer. To think someone on 4chan with burner phones tricked him is a bit of a reach. Even the basic vetting process would pick this up.

    Can we at least wait till it is revealed what he has, instead of reposting rumors, but since we are going there, someone on Reddit says it is Meghan Markle. I tend to believe him, as he had a British name.
     
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  13. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    Avenatti's Twitter account is set to private now.
     
  14. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Two points made in the below article that ring true to me and make the point that the Senate Judiciary Committee is shit:

    1. OF COURSE Avenetti is vetting the people who come to him. And Avenatti has proven that -- unlike a whole bunch of our politicians -- he's not stupid enough to get punk'd.
    2. The Committee has refused to interview his client -- they don't want to know; they don't care. Kavanaugh could be a serial rapist and they don't care. They want him, and only him (read David Brock's piece for NBCNews to know why) on the bench.

    ------

    “I made the determination she was 100 percent credible well before Sunday night,” Avenatti, the attorney who also represents the adult-film actress Stormy Daniels in her lawsuit against President Donald Trump, told POLITICO, referring to the first time he disclosed the allegations involving Kavanaugh. “We’ve received over 3,000 inquiries in the last six months from people with all kinds of crazy stories and fabrications. I’ve heard it all. I’ve seen it all. Like we don’t vet clients. Give me a break.” ...

    But he said members of the Judiciary Committee had not followed up on his offer to have them interview his client. Avenatti said the client had agreed to an FBI investigation and a polygraph test.

    When asked whether she would take her story public regardless of whether the committee called her to testify, Avenatti responded: “Correct.”
    -------
    Avenatti: I wasn’t scammed
     
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  15. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Guess we'll find out today...I'll be waiting with bated breath.
     
  16. Phillyxpat

    Phillyxpat Harrowgateer

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    After virgin altar boy Kavanaugh is confirmed and sworn in, nothing in Constitution about SCOTUS justice cannot be subpoenaed in civil cases after statute of limitations passed the books. Personal civil suits for anguish etc. Could be a good side show for years. Age of Trump...
     
  17. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what is obvious about it. I recognize that ulterior motives are certainly possible, and legal standards have not been met, but my first instinct is to believe a claim of this nature like any other serious crime that is alleged. I'm not going to give you credit for 'remaining skeptical' after getting pushback.

    And let's not forget the second part of your post, which was what I really replied to:

    This was really twisted.. blaming a victim coming forward for causing damage to 'true' victims. This is because it is "so obviously" fake, to you.

    And it has borne out to be 100% wrong. Regardless of how things play out politically or legally, Dr. Ford coming forward with her story has been a watershed moment.
     
  18. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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  19. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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  20. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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  21. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Still processing the new claim a bit, but two observations:

    1. She does not seem to actually be claiming that Kavanaugh gang raped her. She's claiming other unidentified people did, and they were part of his circle, so the claim is guilt by association?

    2. Apparently she is saying that multiple people on multiple occasions knowingly watched young girls be drugged and gang raped, and yet decided it was more important to continue partying than it was to try to stop it, or at very least, tell anyone. Not at the time...not soon after...not months later...but decades later only on the eve of a Supreme Court vote?
     
  22. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if the nuance there is 'other unidentified people' or just 'unidentified people' (which may include Kavanaugh/Judge). But I'm not sure the exact details are important, imo the overall takeaway is that this was not a one-time thing and he was part of it.

    We don't know if anyone tried to stop it or if anyone was told at the time. I think it is somewhat well-known that allegations of this nature are routinely not reported, and when they are, they are downplayed or ignored.

    But let's say the answer is yes, that it is Kavanaugh's nomination to the SC that caused these victims to tell their stories publicly for the first time.. so what? Not only have there been changes in attitudes regarding these kinds of crimes (though obviously not universally), but SC is a very important position. To me it kind of makes sense those factors could lead someone to decide that it's worth going through the inevitable publicity and attacks. And really there is an inherent political nature to all of this. But that doesn't mean politics must be the only motivation, nor does that really bear on the veracity of the claims. It seems like more of an excuse to ignore them.
     
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  23. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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    13 from the affidavit says she was a victim of one of the gang rapes and that Kavanaugh was present. I take that to mean he was involved. Also, she became a victim sometime in 1982, but attended parties from 81-83. It could be that she wasn't 100 percent aware of what was happening with the boys lined up until she became a victim?

    I honestly don't understand why people think its so strange that people wait so long to come forward. This is pretty consistent with sexually abused victims and it makes sense that people feel more comfortable to come out when others come out. Look at the sh!tstorm this is creating and the harassment and dismissiveness the victims are receiving. It's not something people feel comfortable talking about and frankly the GOP's attitude towards the women is appalling. I know someone that didn't come forward until an old neighbor from 30 years ago, whom might have been a victim of sexual abuse, committed suicide 2 years ago. It's also very common with the catholic priest abuse, the me too movement and the Sandusky case. When would you expect people to come forward if it's uncomfortable to talk about and they are still children? How do you start the conversation?

    Look at how the republicans are trying to manipulate their base:

    Graham Goes Too Far in Kavanaugh's Defense - FactCheck.org
     
  24. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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  25. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Juanita Broaddrick
    Paula Jones
    Kathleen Willey
    Karen Monahan
    Mary Jo Kopechne
    Many others

    Let's not pretend this isn't a bipartisan problem.
     
  26. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Disagree 1000000000000%
     
  27. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    Well, of course.. but give it your most generous interpretation, where exactly does that leave your view of events?
     
  28. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't. I'm talking about how Mitch and crew seem more than happy to try and force a vote while openly dismissing the accusers, and in some cases lying about the events/their character to the public. It looks desperate, reckless and disrespectful to the women IMO, especially in the historical context of Roy Moore, Trump and cases like Bill Cosby, Sandusky, Larry Nassar, Harvey Weinstein and all the Catholic scandals. Public attention on this issue seems much more pronounced now and the times seem very different. With that said, I didn't follow politics or news as closely back then so my perspective could be skewed.

    As such, I can't speak much to Clinton's history, or Kennedy's, but i'd be curious to know to what extent the democrats were defending them and maligning the victims and what other specifics are comparative to now. At quick glance, your list above doesn't look as comparative in the points I'm speaking of.
     
    #89 enyo, Sep 26, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
  29. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Just one of many, many, many examples:

    What Juanita Broaddrick Wants You to Know

    The current accusers have many, many, many more holes in their stories than Broddrick ever did.

    Killed a woman, yet is called the Lion of the Senate.
     

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