Gun Massacres

Discussion in 'National' started by MackeyDingo, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. Jeerleader

    Jeerleader Left of the Right and Right of the Left

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    What a sad and unfulfilling death of a thread . . .

    It is clear that the emotional and hyperbolic and histrionic is where you anti-gun liberals are at home and that it is best if you don't wander too far from your comfort zone.

    All the pretending and puffery is just wasted energy and bandwidth and holds no interest. The denigration and ridicule of using a factual foundation for debate and writing of laws is just comical and (should be) embarrassing.

    The most amusing is when you assume that others have no clue (simply because they disagree with you) and then confidently challenge them to support their position. When they do you seem surprised and overwhelmed and run away like a scalded cat.

    This thread should be re-titled, "Why Liberals Always Lose Gun Control Arguments".

    The tired program of emoting yourselves into a position, cementing it in your mind with ridicule of your opponent and then abandoning discussion when the debate turns on facts and supported argument, is not challenging or compelling and it's never convincing.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just gloating -- your approach is appreciated and and you certainly are encouraged to keep it up!

    .
     
  2. OldMama

    OldMama Finally retired. Newly married. Kids are gone.

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    The thread was hijacked by gun enthusiasts comparing ammo and various guns that are of no interest to me and of minimal relevance to the thread. I have a gun. I like target shooting. That's the extent of my interest.

    Frankly, you got boring.
     
    ShoshTrvls, MackeyDingo and Elliott87 like this.
  3. Jeerleader

    Jeerleader Left of the Right and Right of the Left

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    Well, you know how parents of young children get tired of conversing in baby-talk and goo-goo-gaa-gaa; that they pine for and need to converse with adults who share their intellectual level and knowledge? Yeah, well gun rights people are like that. Sometimes we like to just detach from anti-gunners and have a real conversation.

    Wonderful except that you have said that you won't accept any more arguments that the Second Amendment is the law of the land and that you think it should be "fixed" . . . Those senitments demand challenge and rebuttal.

    LOL.

    You know what is boring? Again and again challenging and rebutting people like you who have little problem sharing your opinions but never stick around to defend them.

    What's boring is taking someone who demonstrates some semblance of intelligence and reasoning skills at face value and expending the time and energy to answer their question with as much clarity and support as you can but then they just reply with an offhand dismissive reamark.

    Notice I say that all this is boring but not a waste of time.

    I am not under any delusion that I will ever change your mind or the Mackey's or Jafar's out there and especially those specally gifted individuals, the ShoshTrvls's, who think themselves too smart for the room . . . I gladly accept that reality and I accept that showing them a modicum of respect by just writing a comprehensive answer to their question and watching them just shrink away into inconsequence, will show to the many interested lurkers who has the superior argument.

    What's really boring is repeatedly hearing the stupid hyperbole like how gun rights people are willing to step over the bodies of kids just to rub our penis extensions, but I just look at the source and know such emotionalism is as deep as the water flows . . . there really is nothing there.

    That such idiocy needs to be constantly rebutted is what gets boring; anti's being so idiotic must be exciting since so many are so determined to be so good at it.
     
  4. OldMama

    OldMama Finally retired. Newly married. Kids are gone.

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  5. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    great rant.
    i’d be shocked if anyone read it.
     
  6. OldMama

    OldMama Finally retired. Newly married. Kids are gone.

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    I didn't bother.
     
  7. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    I'll just drop this here. :p

    The TAC-SAC (ALL COLORS)

    gunnuts.jpg
     
  8. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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  9. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    #249 Jayfar, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  10. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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  11. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    -deleted-
     
    #251 Jayfar, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  12. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    FYI, the entire point of why people were up in arms over this is that the weapon was in fact still operative. Obviously she didn't intend to use it, and supposedly did take it to the police. However none of that is relevant to the ATF. They take this stuff very seriously, and they don't care about your intent...they only care about the state of the weapon and how it adheres to the letter of the law no matter how short of a time frame. I've read several stories about how they nail people for possessing items that can turn oil filters into suppressors, even if not in use or even installed.

    And unsurprisingly, they did in fact investigate her: ATF investigating after congressional candidate cut apart AR-15
     
  13. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Google has every right to do this...it is a free platform after all. And I really don't think it is going to impact their business model one bit.

    But it doesn't bode well for the overall idea of free speech.
     
  14. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Read the article closer. There's no indication of a real investigation by ATF, just an unattributed report by one TV station that other media latched onto. The local police contacted ATF a couple weeks ago, after they received an onslaught of calls, but the ATF hasn't even come around to the police department to pick up the weapon. And also read of the ATF's actions in the other case.

    One of the commenters to the linked article claimed that the manner in which she cut the weapon rendered it unfireable (I forget the specifics of the parts she cut through, besides the barrel). I can't vouch for the accuracy of that assertion.
     
    #254 Jayfar, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  15. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I've read several other accounts stating the ATF investigated. I can't imagine it was a lengthy investigation, particularly if she could prove to them that she turned the gun into the police. But in each instance of these destructions put up on Youtube, I have read that the ATF has at least followed up.

    She may have cut into the lower receiver afterwards (one of several steps that the ATF requires), but the video does not show that. Perhaps the commenter meant she cut through the gas tube and/or the piston, but that does not make it unfireable...it only negates the semi-automatic loading mechanism.
     
  16. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    That refreshes my memory that the commenter did cite the gas tube and some other part. I couldn't find the comment later to quote here as it is buried within a gazillion comments now.
     
  17. enyo

    enyo Well-Known Member

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    Nice. So gun legislation that almost everybody agrees with still gets fought by the Pro-Gun advocates.

    Pro-gun group posts Meadows cell phone number online

    "The following Congressmen promised to vote against any bill containing FIX-NICS if it didn't have Reciprocity with it. Were they lying or telling the truth? We'll know following the vote that could happen as early as TODAY!"


    Why can't this stuff be done incrementally? Is human life really this expendable?
     
  18. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Not to belabor the point too much, by replying again to the same comment, but I think the Virginia Pilot article I linked was updated later with this:

    Adam Gershowitz, a College of William & Mary law school professor who specializes in criminal law, said Mallard’s cutting off most of the barrel of the gun doesn’t mean she committed a crime. Prosecutors would be required to show she intended to create an unlawful weapon when she cut it, he said.

    “The best indication of someone’s intent are their words and their actions,” Gershowitz said. Her video statement and following through to deliver it to police “are really good evidence she has no intent to make that an illegal weapon.”

    “Prosecutors try to stay out of the political realm,” he said. “This is clearly made as a political statement. It would be shocking if they brought criminal charges.”
     
  19. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Eh, it is *technically* a crime. I agree they won't file charges though (and shouldn't).
     
  20. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Eh, no. The quote reflects that intent is an element of this crime. Without intent, she did not commit the crime, *technically* or otherwise.
     
  21. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Next time I break a law by accident I will tell them I didn't mean to, and I'm sure they will let me off the hook because intent wasn't there.
     
  22. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    This Pa. school district's plan to stop shooters: Arming students with a bucket of rocks | Washington Post



    To be fair, the district also has an armed janitor:

    From Wilkinsburg to Harrisburg, citizens and lawmakers alike discuss issue of arming school employees | PublicSource.org

    In Schuylkill County’s Blue Mountain School District, Superintendent David Helsel told lawmakers that maintenance staff — currently only one employee due to a retirement — are also trained as armed security and have been carrying firearms for five years.

    Currently only one armed janitor for the whole district, although I suppose one armed janitor is more effective than a one-armed janitor. ;)
     
    #262 Jayfar, Mar 24, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  23. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    If it is a specific intent law, they absolutely should.

    (Pro tip: don’t be facetious about something you don’t actually know).
     
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  24. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I didn't say she'd be prosecuted...in fact I agreed she wouldn't. The original argument was whether the ATF would investigate her, which they absolutely should (and per the police spokesperson, they did).

    The entire point of my facetiousness here is to drill on the ongoing Leftist hypocrisy of "rules for thee but not for me". If a pro-gunner is held to a tight standard on these things, the anti-gunners should absolutely be held to the same.
     
  25. ODragon

    ODragon Well-Known Member

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    Come on, people are given warnings all the time for minor issues where there intent wasn't there. I was in a car recently pulled over for speeding. The driver walked away with a warning because he sped up to pass. His intent wasn't to break the law, it was to pass. Officer understood that and gave just a warning.
     
  26. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Right, but if I understand Shosh correctly, many laws specifically have the requirement to prove intent written in.
     
  27. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    And that's fine...if it is applied equally. Ask Shaneen Allen how that works.
     
  28. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    I'm guessing intent isn't baked into the applicable New Jersey law, but yes, that case was beyond outrageous and a good reason to support reciprocity of gun laws between states.

    Pardoned by Christie, woman pushed for change to U.S. gun laws | NJ.com

    Allen, a phlebotomist, was driving on the Atlantic City Expressway when she was pulled over for making an unsafe lane change in October 2013.

    She told the police officer that she was carrying a firearm and that she had a Pennsylvania-issued concealed carry permit.

    "I thought my license was just like a driver's license," she said.

    She spent 48 days in jail before she was admitted to a pretrial intervention program. In 2015, while gearing up for his failed presidential run, Christie interviewed her and eventually pardoned her.
     
  29. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Which I'm pretty sure was clear from my post, but some people, when they are wrong, still can't let it go.
     
  30. Jeerleader

    Jeerleader Left of the Right and Right of the Left

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    And some sheepishly, meekly, weakly, slink away from the discussion, hoping nobody noticed.

    I guess we each suffer our own fools . . .
     

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