Greater Philly mall thread: The good, the bad, and the dead.

Discussion in 'The Suburbs' started by Nytecat, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Could Dillard's make a go at King of Prussia? The mall leans towards expensive/upscale and that apparently is Dillard's target market. It'd land in the top mall in the region. At this point, if it wanted to, it could enter the Philly market without the issue of lack of suitable sites.
     
  2. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    How expensive is Dillard's supposed to be? More than Macy's and Penney's but less than Nordstrom and Bloomies? Definitely less than Neiman Marcus and their legendary cookie recipe. :p Dillards would surely be welcome at KOP. Unfortunately, they don't have locations north of Virginia and east of Ohio. A new distribution center serving several locations would be needed for Dillard's to come here, right?
     
  3. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    ^ In terms of being expensive, I think they are considered more than macy's or maybe on par.

    Simon at King of Prussia shouldn't have a hard time filling KoP space so it might not want another dept. store. I agree with you that JCPenney is now a risky tenant. Plymouth Meeting's land value is more than what a JCP can offer as well. Although PREIT probably will just do restaurant/entertainment complex in fill, it would be interesting for Plymouth Meeting to get a new hotel and the mall configured with access. Hotel room rates are high on that side west of PHL, that demand is likely exceeding supply of rooms.

    Neshaminy's land value likely isn't as high but a JCP wouldn't make sense anyways with Oxford Valley and Cherry Hill.

    I'm still a little surprised, that if JCP can't make King of Prussia work or doesn't want to change things to make it work there, how do they survive long term?
     
  4. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Does JCPenney own or lease at King of Prussia? If they lease, I can see them being priced out. That’s an increasingly likely outcome for JCP at trophy malls like this. If they own, I guess they feel the net income from a sale exceeds keeping it as an ongoing concern. It's still hard to believe they’re leaving a mall where everybody seems to want a piece of the action.

    I was at the Plymouth Meeting Macy’s yesterday to watch its last shoppers leave with display tables and fixtures. The third floor was once again closed and pickings were very slim. The only traditional merchandise still on hand were deeply discounted area rugs. PREIT already has new directories in the mall with Macy's omitted. Besides Macy’s, Uncle Julio’s recently closed and Footlocker has reduced their footprint, closing the LadyFootlocker section. Barring major changes to the mall, which PREIT has hinted at, I still like Uncle Julio’s design although it’s only fitting for Mexican and Southwest themed restaurants. Finally, they're adding a badly needed new staircase to replace the one displaced by LEGOLAND.

    After the PMM, Neshaminy, and Voorhees Macy’s locations close, are any of these old-school Strawbridge & Clothier anchors still occupied? I’d like to see at least one of them survive as a testament to S&C.
     
  5. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    I was looking around and it might be JCP had a 25 year lease that was up. Apparently the building was once Gimbels, then Stern's prior.
    Gimbel's/ Stern's/ JCPenney - King of Prussia, PA
    J.C. Penney gets modern makeover at The Plaza at King of Prussia Mall

    Probably rent has gone up. The land owner might get more value, back if sold or operated by Simon, for more mall space or other use.

    In terms of sales, there is no way JCPenney in Century III mall, a dying mall in Pittsburgh, where JCPenney will stay open can do better in sales than the store in King of Prussia. On the other hand, JCPenney can't make enough sales/profit in King of Prussia to cover the higher rent going forward there.

    I suppose Montgomery will have to cover the loss. From Exton area, it's quite a hike to reach a JCP.

    Then again, Burlington, which is doing well, and some other stores have light or nonexistant coverage starting at Plymouth Meeting and heading west.
     
  6. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    At Neshaminy, would it be sensible for Boscov's to relocate to the Macy's anchor location? I know it's costly to move, and maybe unlikely, but it appears that the Macy's site is better positioned. It's closer to the Route 1 exchange, and more central in the mall, while Boscov branches off in it's own small wing. From wikipedia, it appears Macy's site opened in 1968 as S&C, while Boscov's site was originally Lit Bros., opened in 1974. Typically original tenants have prime positions. I will check out the mall again this week for a closer look, but I'm thinking the macy's site is better in position already.

    If that happened, the existing Boscov's could be razed and the mall could be downsized or right-sized, with possibly some of that wing closed. Other use for the land might be possible afterwards.

    In general, I'm curious what GGP's plans are for the mall. Unlike PREIT that has been finding new tenants and redeveloping parts of Moorestown and Plymouth Meeting, GGP hasn't put much if any investment in Neshaminy over the years. It's mostly neglected, and not strategic to own in any sense, unlike Christiana which is strong and destinational, and is the power mall of it's area. The Neshaminy Mall also is close to Philadelphia Mills and Oxford Valley, coincidentally both Simon owned malls, which have some appeal over it.
     
    #186 dontforget, Mar 21, 2017 at 10:20 PM
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017 at 10:32 PM
  7. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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  8. Hospitalitygirl

    Hospitalitygirl Resident Ornery Bitch

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    What a weird, strange. world.
     
  9. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    I think most traffic that goes to the mall enters on the east side so visitors currently see Boscov's on the way in. The only part of the mall that seems truly hidden is the wing with the movie theater. GGP hasn't invested much in Neshaminy but then they haven't needed to either. Losing Macy's will probably force them to decide whether to make upgrades to the mall or unload it.

    Century III is one of my favorite dead malls currently. It's gotten a lot of coverage on Youtube and its days definitely look numbered, even with JCP staying for now.

    And another one bites the dust. -_-

    This is the first public admission from Sears that they’re not going to survive. I didn’t think it would come until July or August. That’s when a two-year waiting period on declaring bankruptcy is up. The end of Sears is near

    I’ve known since 2014 that Sears Holdings could no longer be saved. It's amazing they've lasted this long. The recent sale of Craftsman should buy them a little more time, but not much. My most recent thinking was they’d phase out the rest of Kmart this year and then shut down the remaining Sears locations in 2018. But now I’m wondering if they’ll make it that far.

    Please excuse the bold letters. My computer is being screwy today. :p
     
  10. Jayfar

    Jayfar Junior Old Fart

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    Funny you should mention that. If they do go into bankruptcy, they may be forced to unwind the already-consumated Craftsman deal. That would be a fine mess.

    Sears' $900M sale of Craftsman to Stanley Black & Decker 'voidable'? | USAToday
     
  11. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    So, I visited Neshaminy today and I have to say it's interesting. In my opinion, Sears has the best spot as it's what the eye sees when coming into the mall area and it has the best highway visibility. Yet, when going into the Sears, it was dead as ever - devoid of customers.

    The macy's has closed but it's signage was still up.

    I drove fully around the mall and parked by the Boscov's. It was busy and like a typical Boscov experience. The outside appearance of the store was dowdy. And, this store felt all the way in the back.

    So my opinion now is Sears has the best spot but makes nothing of it.

    The most upscale touch to the mall is the Barnes & Noble. Barnes & Noble tends to have demographic standards before it opens some place. Somehow Barnes & Noble came to Neshaminy and is by the Sears side but it is on the front of the mall with good visibility. Inside, the Sears side also makes way to the AMC corridor.

    With Sears possibly to be in closure, Neshaminy & Oxford Valley will definitely be interesting to watch as Sears services both malls and both malls already have atleast one vacant anchor.

    I could see it sensible for Boscov to relocate to Sears Neshaminy spot, but it's costly. And if the current store is doing well in business, why bother and for Neshaminy of all places.

    What's troubling though is Neshaminy is sandwiched between better malls and the demographics are mixed with blue collar orientation. There are nice homes owned by upper income individuals/families though by the Neshaminy Mall. Perhaps a Trader Joes could take a spot where Macy's is currently located, if it's demolished.

    At Oxford Valley, Sears has a central spot, but I don't see Boscov interested. It might want the Neshaminy market, while Macy's/JCP have Oxford Valley, but both malls will have challenges in that arrangement, rather than let one survive and the other mall die off.
     
    #192 dontforget, Mar 22, 2017 at 8:43 PM
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017 at 8:49 PM
  12. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    If that happens it would be a damn shame.

    I wish I knew what GGP was thinking at this point. Their own website says the mall hasn't been upgraded since 1998. That's almost two decades ago, an eternity in the mall industry. They can't put off the decision to invest or divest too much longer.

    At the risk of sounding politically incorrect, many white people prefer Neshaminy over the "unsafe" Philadelphia Mills. In the latest incident, just after Christmas, a teenage attack mob tried to storm the mall but they were largely thwarted by police and mall security. But the news only serves to heighten long standing notions about how "ghetto" Mills is.
     
  13. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Schuylkill Mall: 1980-2017.

    We haven't gotten the official word yet but the writing is on the wall for the mall just outside Frackville.

    Fleeing tenants turn Schuylkill Mall into a ghost town

    That's too bad. I was hoping Schuylkill would end up like some other dead malls which have been successfully repurposed while retaining key inside and outside elements. No such luck here. Also the movie theater is brand new.
     

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