Greater Philly mall thread: The good, the bad, and the dead.

Discussion in 'The Suburbs' started by Nytecat, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Eventually I’d like to see Primark at Cherry Hill Mall and the redeveloped Gallery. But despite being separated by a river and toll bridges, I don’t know if they’d go for two locations that close.

    I was at Oxford Valley on Black Friday and at sunset most of the globe lights in the courtyard came on. Good to see that but this area could be so much better. Many thriving malls have an outdoor lifestyle section and this part of OVM would be perfect for that.

    I’ve noticed a resemblance between Deptford and White Marsh as well. Very busy with the same anchors and a similar overall roster. They also lack the usual A mall staples like Apple and the Cheesecake Factory.

    And I came across something that contradicts a claim that Neshaminy’s owner wants to keep it. They also apparently bought the Sears building well before it actually closed. This article is a year old and, again, I don’t know if the transfer to Brookfield changes anything. GGP Buys Sears Store at Philadelphia-Area Mall; Eyes Sale
     
  2. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Eventually I’d like to see Primark at Cherry Hill Mall and the redeveloped Gallery. But despite being separated by a river and toll bridges, I don’t know if they’d go for two locations that close.

    I was at Oxford Valley on Black Friday and at sunset most of the globe lights in the courtyard came on. Good to see that but this area could be so much better. Many thriving malls have an outdoor lifestyle section and this part of OVM would be perfect for that.

    I’ve noticed a resemblance between Deptford and White Marsh as well. Very busy with the same anchors and a similar overall roster. They also lack the usual A mall staples like Apple and the Cheesecake Factory.

    And I came across something that contradicts a claim that Neshaminy’s owner wants to keep it. They also apparently bought the Sears building well before it actually closed. This article is a year old and, again, I don’t know if the transfer to Brookfield changes anything.
     
  3. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    One minor change at Moorestown Mall is the Subway eatery closed from the foodcourt. Before the foodcourt (dining court) renovation, it used to be located where the Brooklyn Pizza is located. Also, the Subway eatery outside the mall by the motels (Maple Shade) closed awhile back. A lot of Subways are closing in the Philly area. When I went up to Connecticut a few months ago, I would see them around more. Up there I don't think they have Wawa or an equivalent.

    Also, I missed this but Trader Joes, TJMaxx/HomeGoods, Shake Shack is opening at the Garden State Park.
    Trader Joe’s, Shake Shack coming to Garden State Park site in Cherry Hill

    I knew about Costco, and apparently Duluth Trading Post. On one hand, Cherry Hill (08002, 08034) along with Moorestown Mall, East Gate Square (Mt.Laurel/Moorestown) and the outlying sites in Maple Shade pretty much has every national store. I don't know how many people from Philly do it, but over the weekend, they can drive over the bridge, pretty much do all their shopping, and the lower gas price and getting filled up, might offset the bridge toll back home. So, I think Cherry Hill and the area has the convenience of everything covered.

    On the other hand, I dislike the race track redevelopment in general, and I think there are too many vacant sites in Cherry Hill shopping centers that suffer when just new is built by Haddonfield Rd. TJMaxx returns to Cherry Hill, but I was thinking it'd opt for the former Toys R Us space by Walmart, but this site is there now.

    I also checked out the new condos by the racetrack. Some units are for sale in new buildings but I was appalled that not all of them include garage parking. I've checked out luxury apartments/condos in different states. One expectation that I would have is some garage parking for the high cost. Either a private garage or a shared garage. Parking outside in a parking lot is going to make it feel like a glorified regular apartment rental.
     
  4. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    Oops, here’s the article on Neshaminy Mall I meant to post before. GGP Buys Sears Store at Philadelphia-Area Mall; Eyes Sale

    Century III mall continues its freefall. Supposedly there’s no Santa, decorations, or music this year. There’s maybe nine stores still open. It sounds just like Burlington Center as it was winding down operations a year ago. But there’s so many reports of mold and water damage I doubt they can keep the doors open until the sheriffs sale which Moonbeam keeps finding ways to put off.

    I mainly wish Cherry Hill were more transit and pedestrian friendly. They have the potential but so far most of their developments have fallen short. But a grade crossing is supposed to go in just north of the NJT ACRL station in the future which will foster better community connectivity.
     
  5. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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  6. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for sharing this article. Glad it will have a new owner.

    One line that is interesting is:
    "It also includes keeping the existing footprint of the mall, including the structure of a former Macy’s store closed in 2017."

    I wonder how it keeps the structure and reuses it? And where the townhomes, senior housing go?
     
  7. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    My guess is the housing would go on the vast, underutilized parking lot on the Somerdale Rd. side. I noticed someone recently put in a brand new sidewalk along there. The VTC video board still advertises the long gone Children's Place. During my latest visit, Santa was drawing a good but not huge crowd. Adventureland is about half empty and Payless is liquidating. I'm surprised they stayed as long as they did.

    Here's another Burlington Center Mall article on nj.com. They really like holding BCM up as the biggest example of mall fail in NJ.

    Inside one of N.J.'s dead malls: This is what it looks like after the lights go out

    Funnily enough, all the photos were inside the cordoned off wing including the long shuttered Macy's. There's also a link to a related article on the effort to save the elephant.
     
  8. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    At Voorhees, I thought about the vast parking lot facing Somerdale Rd. but it'd seem like new development would block visibility to Boscov's - which I couldn't see Boscov supporting. If it's done in front of the macy's, it'd be tight and block visibility to whatever will go there. I suppose that I will have to see the proposal. Also would one want to buy a townhome in front or behind, an entertainment attraction center where there will likely be noise and crowds on many nights after 10pm? Kind of seems a strange mix so close together. Meanwhile, if one is low in groceries, one has to drive to the super Walmart in Somerdale or Voorhees Target (White Horse Road) or Voorhees Acme, all 1.5 to 2 miles away and nothing closer in. (I know there is a Wawa a little closer, but I'm excluding that as counting for grocery).

    I was surprised Payless kept VTC during bankruptcy. I thought during bankruptcy it was able to break leases easier. It closed a short lived location in Marlton and one by the Lindenwold station around it, but kept Voorhees interesting enough.

    For Burlington, I wonder if the elephant could just be preserved without having to move it (which would be costlier) i.e. redevelop around it and then enclose it. I suppose it depends what the redevelopment plan for the entire center is though. Thanks again for the articles, I read the linked elephant article, and I will be making a donation via gofundme.
     
    #428 dontforget, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  9. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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  10. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    I think it'd be pretty idiotic if Tilt Studio is kicked out. Kind of strange the editorial writer is saying: "The upcoming Brandywine project ought to be watched closely throughout New Jersey." People in North Jersey won't be focused on a South Jersey mall, and vice versa. The demolition is still less impact compared to Owings Mills (in Maryland) where that larger mall was demolished all at once.

    Anyways, I went to the mall today and noticed a few things I didn't notice before. One is the Qdoba exterior sign (faces the apartments not the traffic light at the parking lot) is still there and was lit up. I suppose Qdoba forgot to remove it when it left. Lastly the food court and other areas were decorated for Christmas which is nice. I was thinking about it more recently and wondered why all the residential buildings were luxury apartments and none were designated for condos. Just kind of interesting because there are a high number of apartments already there, but no condos. I did notice Payless was closed, and Adventureland looked closed for the day which is odd for a 6pm on a Thursday.

    I went to Audubon Crossings after sometime just before. When I went last, it was struggling as Staples pulled out and there was a few major vacancies. But Marshall's and Goodwill (relocation) have now filled that center's largest unoccupied spots. This center has Payless, Rue 21 and Shoe Dept - a couple of mall like tenants, and it had FYE for awhile too. (I miss the Muscle Maker Grill that closed).

    It was originally Black Horse Shopping Center, with a JCPenney and Bradlees last.


    I don't know how much overlap it has with Echelon's trade area, but possibly to some extent as I recall a few stores relocated out of Echelon and landed up there. I don't know how long JCPenney operated at Deptford, Echelon and Audubon, but there might have been 1-3 years of overlap. The Deptford site is it's newest in South Jersey.

    I meant to say this about Moorestown's foodcourt. By the former Subway (that closed), there is a wall with artwork with what looks like a frozen yogurt store. Ever since the foodcourt was re-done (to dining court), I'm not sure if that wall is a placeholder for another eatery or just a wall. Also, it's pretty funny that rather than actually leasing a frozen yogurt eatery, PREIT puts up wall art of a frozen yogurt eatery. (There is Kiwi Frozen Yogurt in East Gate Square though). It puts store wall arts similar like that up in the second level of the Nordstrom wing at Cherry Hill Mall.

    Speaking of that space (that PREIT wasn't able to lease out to a traditional retail), 1776 at Cherry Hill Mall is supposed to open next month:
    1776 at Cherry Hill Mall
    I still don't get it completely, but it looks like it's mainly reserved workspaces, but maybe when it opens I'll ask around.
     
    #430 dontforget, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  11. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    I question the accuracy of that article I linked yesterday. First, it was identified as an opinion piece and had a number of factual errors and ideas that seem out of touch with reality. It said no mall in South Jersey was ever razed to the extent that Echelon is supposed to be...not true. Shore Mall comes to mind but he may just mean nearby suburbs. Also, why would any North Jersey mall owner use a South Jersey project as a template for their property? The author may have misread redevelopment as a euphemism for demolition as that's what "redevelopment" means most of the time when it comes to malls. Still, just to be safe, I'm going to treat this as Echelon Mall's last Christmas until I'm proven otherwise.

    If Brandywine is getting control of the property, that could indicate that most of the existing structure will be converted to office space as that's their specialty. This would dovetail on what's already there with a number of medical, government, and non-profit offices.
     
  12. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Uh, read that again re Brandywine:

    "The new developer, Brandywine Financial Services Corp. (not the better-known Brandywine Realty Trust, says it will turn the site into housing, plus the usual mix of "destination" entertainment and retail venues designed to be the remedy for struggling malls."
     
  13. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    There's more than one Brandywine?? That's what I get for skimming that paragraph.
     
  14. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Brandywine Financial is trying to maximize re-use, even if to me it doesn't make sense. i.e. either go residential or go destination entertainment (bar), but not sure how both will work in that space. Developers always just want to add more and build more in limited space.

    For example, the former Cherry Hill racetrack where M&M Realty owns 2/3 of the space:

    I checked a new condo at Park Place at Garden State Park | Brand New Luxury Home Community in New Jersey | Overview
    As I mentioned before, no covered parking/gararge guaranteed. And one of the condos that I was shown had the kitchen with no windows and nearest window of natural light a full living room length away from the kitchen. These less desirable units are a result of crammed development.

    Lastly, I was thinking another use would be if the former Voorhees S&C/macy's could be a hospital. It'd actually help the existing foodcourt too, with visitors (of patients) and staff making the trip to the foodcourt there. A lot of the rest of the vacancies in the mall could be turned to more medical office space as well.

    It's been reported that Boscov might have to vacate from Monmouth Mall since it doesn't own the space and the owners want to build residential there. I wonder if Boscov is waiting to 2019 to hear if JCP or L&T have SEPA and central NJ store closures. I don't think it will impact South Jersey per se, but if say Boscov is able to pick up a Lord & Taylor site in Bala Cynywd, Freehold Raceway Mall and Quaker Bridge Mall sites, it could close Voorhees and Monmouth, and relocate inventory/staff across other stores. I think Boscov is content at Voorhees, but a poor redevelopment plan/effort by Brandywine could make things go sour at Voorhees. For what Brandywine Financial might want - residential and a lot of residential, it might want Boscov out since the Boscov occupies so much land.
     
    #434 dontforget, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  15. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    I kind of think the destination entertainment attraction idea would do better in Moorestown Mall - maybe the Sears space when/if Sears closes, or even OVM Sears, where there is a United Artists movie screen across from it which would be complementary. Even the basement level of Sears (at Moorestown) which I originally thought wouldn't be valuable - it could be used for private parties/events. (Of course, I am assuming Sears at Moorestown will close next year). But this type of attraction might work even in the macy's space that is not being used.

    And, for the macy's space at Moorestown which is partially being re-used but a large part is not, I had an idea. Perhaps PREIT could persuade BJ's Wholesale (less than 1 mile away) to relocate from it's Maple Shade site here. A relocation might help boost memberships and sales. I know many in Cherry Hill east side and Marlton who shop at Moorestown Mall, East Gate Square, but who are unaware of BJ's Maple Shade site, as it is tucked on Kings Highway, but venture off to Costco in Mt Laurel which is farther away, but in a popular shopping center (Centerton Square). And Costco wants to open a Cherry Hill site which will pressure BJ's from both sides. It might behoove them to increase visibility to a better site, and it could sell of it's space and likely be a win/win. PREIT wouldn't have to pay for a costly demolition - just possible some exterior changes, and it could backfill a lot of the former macy's space that HomeSense/Sierra/Five Below aren't using.
     
    #435 dontforget, Dec 22, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  16. Worsa1980

    Worsa1980 New Member

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    What anout outstanding balance it could be happen with everybody. I have something on this. There is an updated list of banks Non ChexSystems Banks List: Banks That Don't Use ChexSystems which don't use chexsystems for checking their clients whether they are able to pay. If somebody has the problems with bank and can not take a loan again, he can use this link and find a bank which is ready to cooperate with him. I guess it's really helpful information.
     
  17. Nytecat

    Nytecat Well-Known Member

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    If nothing else, the changes coming to Voorhees and Moorestown are definitely interesting. Speaking of changes, Exton Square is also in a state of flux.



    Besides Baby&Kids Gap, H&M is also closing. I have word that Jefferson is putting in a medical clinic in H&M’s location. A second robotics place has opened, this time in the old Sam Goody space. Crazy 8 hasn’t posted closing signs here yet, or anywhere else that I’m aware of. Regular Gap and Banana Republic are staying put, at least for now.

    Amazingly, the Exton, Granite Run, Montgomery, and Moorestown Sears have survived the latest closing list. But a little farther away, Park City will be among the next to close. I’ll be very surprised if Lampert’s offer is accepted as a qualified bid.
     
  18. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget Sears is also still in Concord Mall as well. I'd say it's pretty bad for Exton to lose H&M, but it is what it is...

    An article here on the Mt Laurel Friendly's possibly being replaced by Chase Bank:
    https://www.courierpostonline.com/s...laurel-camden-evesham-cinnaminson/2449000002/

    If so, I kind of hope Friendly's would re-open back in Moorestown Mall since it is losing Mt. Laurel coverage. It was last in the mall in the early '90s. The site at East Gate Sq. was replaced by Buffalo Wild Wings. It's kept Neshaminy as inside a mall, and now is in Voorhees Town Ctr. and Gloucester Outlets. Although it is franchises. It is still in Marlton, Cinnaminson and Westmont though - Marlton probably being the nearest, but it'd be a full circle return for it to re-open in the mall site.
     
  19. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Not looking good for the remaining Sears

    Sears Prepares for Possible Liquidation as ESL Bid Fails

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...are-for-possible-liquidation-as-esl-bid-fails

    As we know, JCPenney is struggling as well.

    Bed Bath & Beyond hasn't been so doing well, but isn't in as bad shape as JCPenney. I've been wondering if it should open at Moorestown Mall as well, maybe to help fill some void when Sears is gone. I find BB&B's Garden State and Centerton Square store too far apart that it might need another location to attract customers. And, those are busy centers but each anchored by two large tenants really. Garden State - Wegmans, and Home Depot, Centerton - Target and Costco. But the smaller stores in the center like BB&B, are typically harder to get in and out of, just within the center, where the end cap large anchors benefit the most. BB&B might believe it has good locations but it might be losing to those big stores like Costco, Walmart and Target in it's suburban big box strategy.

    A lot of times I like the idea of buying at BB&B but the Walmart and/or Target are more convenient to reach and park.
     
    #439 dontforget, Jan 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  20. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Toy Genius closed in the Moorestown Mall during the holidays. I wonder if it had any store closing sale, or abruptly closed leaving people without much option for returns. It is just odd and unfortunate at the same time. And, just as Shoe Dept. Encore is added, Toy Genius is gone from that wing. It was one of the featured stores in the Boutique Row. Typical with Moorestown Mall to gain one store, lose one.

    The Freehold Raceway Mall store is still open as well as Shoppes at Old Bridge, and it's website still lists Moorestown even though it's closed.

    Maybe it would have done better in Deptford Mall over Moorestown, as Deptford has more visitor traffic even though Moorestown has good demographics. Freehold Raceway has good demographics and high volume.
     
  21. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Looks like we've still got Lampert to kick around for a while longer.

    Sears gets another chance at life, but path forward seems challenging | Bloomberg

    (Bloomberg) — Eddie Lampert’s winning bid to salvage Sears Holdings Corp. valued the bankrupt retailer at $5.2 billion, according to a statement.

    The hearing to approve the sale to Lampert’s ESL Investments Inc. is scheduled for Feb. 1, Sears said. Provided the closing conditions are satisfied, the transaction is expected to close on or about Feb 8.

    “We are pleased to have reached a deal that would provide a path for Sears to emerge from the Chapter 11 process,” the restructuring committee for the Sears board said in the release. “Importantly, the consummation of the transaction would preserve employment for tens of thousands of associates, as well as the relationships with many vendors and suppliers who provide Sears with goods and services.”

    Sears disclosed no information about whether the bid releases Lampert from legal liability over previous deals he did with the company. Creditors have said that the investor’s earlier bailout transactions unfairly benefited him, and they have threatened legal action. Lampert has said the deals were properly crafted and kept the chain alive.


    [snip]
     
  22. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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  23. dontforget

    dontforget Well-Known Member

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    Michaels to open at former Macy's site in Moorestown

    Most likely a relocation from East Gate Square to Moorestown Mall. The mall site will have better Route 38 visibility, which is better for it, but otherwise, it's kind of an uninteresting move.

    The article mentions:
    Its arrival will complete redevelopment of a former Macy's store at the Route 38 mall, PREIT said in a statement.

    The remaining area of the former macy's space is still very large so I'm kind of surprised by that statement.

    I was also just googling Bed Bath and Beyond in Vineland, and it is apparently closing from the Cumberland Mall. It didn't have a mall entrance but is in the mall site:
    https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com...cle_b5d04ef6-fad7-5ed9-92c5-e142536eed7e.html

    Vineland/Cumberland Co. is a very blue collar/lower income area. Coincidentally, there is a discounted sales tax rate of just 3.5% there as Vineland is an Urban Enterprise Zone in NJ. When one adds up some of the pricier electric items, one could save in tax by purchasing at that store than in Deptford if one is willing to drive down there. However, it is likely just poor sales at that location, which is no surprise. I always thought it stood out there as too upscale relative to the discount stores there. The Best Buy in that area is a smaller store as well, relative to Deptford and Mays Landing/Egg Harbor Twp.
     
    #443 dontforget, Jan 20, 2019 at 11:16 AM
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2019 at 11:42 AM

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