Donald Trump Impeached!

Discussion in 'National' started by MackeyDingo, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Sure, you are correct that he referred those items elsewhere. I wasn't intending to mislead or make false statements around that, but understand and acknowledge your technical point.

    However in the bigger picture beyond the technical legalities, it is fairly unimportant whose scope it is in. The fact that this is the kind of stuff that is being latched onto is indicative about the complete vaporware that Mueller has on anything relevant.

    But I'm patient.
     
  2. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    And if that can be proven, then that's great. Mueller wins. But as I was informed on here previously, that's a fairly high bar to clear.
     
  3. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    it will not be proven.
    i also don’t honestly believe he will be impeached and convicted because of the requirements in the senate.
    heart attack isn’t unlikely.
     
  4. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    We're not talking about what can be proven in court. You always say you don't support him, so why the need to dodge?

    And this high bar didn't seem to exist so much when it was another politician.. "Anyone other than the leading Democratic candidate for president would be in a legal sh*tstorm by now, if not already in prison... HRC wins the nomination, and is then indicted." (May 2016, nearly 2 months prior to Comey's statement)
     
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  5. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I support facts and right/wrong, not individual politicians.

    My understanding of the law and the bar to clear has changed over time thanks to conversation with people on this board. I don't agree often with Shosh, but I respect her knowledge of the law. A thoughtful person can disagree with someone else yet still gain knowledge and insight about their perspective. And sometimes that leads you to change your mind.
     
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  6. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    "but I respect her knowledge of the law"

    I guess this change of heart occurred in the past couple of weeks..

    Gun Massacres

    The question of what is legally provable or a crime is still beside the point, which is: Based on what we know right now, does it pass a straight-face test that Trump had no knowledge?
     
  7. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    In fact, it has in some ways. Partially through her rebuttal in that exact conversation. Is that so hard to believe?

    IMO the reason this board has gone downhill is that people like me rarely are given the benefit of the doubt that we're discussing/arguing in good faith and are willing to adjust when presented with a convincing argument. Just because you think the argument is convincing doesn't always mean I do. And who wants to be attacked and badgered and bullied all the time about it? I'm only still on here because I must be a masochist.

    Oh and to the topic at hand, whether it is "legally provable or a crime" IS ENTIRELY THE POINT. I wanted like hell for HRC to be strung up for Benghazi, and for the email server, and for a myriad of other things...but nobody ever got anywhere close to proving those cases. So I accepted that as reality and moved on. That isn't happening right now with the Left and your utter obsession with Trump. He's trolling the sh*t out of you nonstop, and Mueller is leading you on as if there's something there. I can only imagine the tears you are going to shed when it all comes up with a big huge nothingburger.
     
  8. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    Whether it is legally provable cannot be the point, because it's not what I am asking about. I'm asking whether you think it is more likely than not that Trump had no knowledge of what his people were doing.

    You clearly were and are able to make a judgement on what Hillary did or did not do. I don't know what is so difficult about applying that same standard today. (..and of all things, Benghazi? You're embarrassing yourself)

    And it is hard to believe, because it seems like you support Trump's trolling.
     
  9. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    Michael Cohen had a nasty habit of recording his clients. Now the FBI MAY have those recordings. This would seem to eliminate Trump's apparent advantage of not using email, and thus not creating a record of his criminality. Now the record is allegedly there, in his own voice. Albeit less exhaustive than email.

    An alternate take: This entire thing displays the lack of imagination of Hollywood. Compare this reality to the bland schlock we've been subject to.
    HOLLYWOOD GETS AN F!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6c9e9b37800_story.html?utm_term=.aea16bae06ee
     
  10. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    The important question is whether or not it can be legally proven. I do acknowledge you appear to be asking a different question, and my answer is that yes I think he did have knowledge.

    As I said, the important question is whether or not HRC's activities were legally proven crimes. I have consistently held that same exact standard.

    So do you really believe those were spontaneous riots initiated by Nakoula's video? And are you really supportive of our pathetic defense of the embassy? Are you supportive of the hellish environment that we left that country in afterwards? If so, you are the one embarrassing yourself...but really this is just another example of your silly childish bullying tactics.

    It amuses me because of the completely unhinged and deranged response that it gets. Apparently he has learned from Bush's experience that the only way to deal with the Left acting like children is to actually treat you like children in kind.
     
  11. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Good, that would be factual evidence for once.
     
  12. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Trump Sees Inquiry Into Cohen as Greater Threat Than Mueller | NYTimes.com

    WASHINGTON — President Trump’s advisers have concluded that a wide-ranging corruption investigation into his personal lawyer poses a greater and more imminent threat to the president than even the special counsel’s investigation, according to several people close to Mr. Trump.

    As his lawyers went to court in New York on Friday to try to block prosecutors from reading files that were seized from the personal lawyer, Michael D. Cohen, this week, Mr. Trump found himself increasingly isolated in mounting a response. He continued to struggle to hire a new criminal lawyer, and some of his own aides were reluctant to advise him about a response for fear of being dragged into a criminal investigation themselves.

    The raids on Mr. Cohen came as part of a monthslong federal investigation based in New York, court records show, and were sweeping in their breadth. In addition to searching his home, office and hotel room, F.B.I. agents seized material from Mr. Cohen’s cellphones, tablet, laptop and safe deposit box, according to people briefed on the warrants. Prosecutors revealed in court documents that they had already secretly obtained many of Mr. Cohen’s emails.

    Mr. Trump called Mr. Cohen on Friday to “check in,” according to two people briefed on the call. Depending on what else was discussed, the call could be problematic, as lawyers typically advise their clients against discussing investigations.

    Mr. Cohen has publicly declared that he would defend the president to the end, but court documents show that prosecutors are building a significant case that could put pressure on him to cooperate and tell investigators what he knows.


    [snip]​
     
  13. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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  14. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    [​IMG]

    I'll believe the facts whenever they are presented, not he-said, she-said. Seems to me this one should be fairly simple to prove or disprove via unbiased third parties.
     
  15. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    true. but everybody in prison says thier innocent too.
    forgive me if i don’t take the word of the guy who records people’s conversations without thier consent so he can use it against them. that’s his own characterization of his actions.
     
  16. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Difference being of course is that Cohen is not in prison
     
  17. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    not yet but get real. the FBI doesn’t raid your office, apartment, copy your computer, phone, download your emails, and break attorney client privilege if you aren’t a criminal.

    let’s just stick to reality. this raid went through two trump appointees and at least one federal judge. there are crimes. he’s a criminal. criminals lie. that’s the point. maybe he didn’t go to prague but his denials mean nothing.
     
    #197 MackeyDingo, Apr 14, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  18. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Are you serious? You've read the OIG report on McCabe, right? The FBI does a whole lot of things that are extra-legal and politically motivated.

    Thank God for due process. Holy crap this is banana republic stuff right here.
     
  19. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    oh right. i forgot you are a conspiracy theorist of convenience.

    sure dude.

    only the report can tell us if michael cohen is more reputable than the fbi.

    question: do you believe russia interfered in the election?
     
    #199 MackeyDingo, Apr 15, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  20. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Did they try? Absolutely. That's pretty much fact at this point, isn't it?

    Did they succeed? I don't think they succeeded in swaying votes one way or the other...their spend was far too small. But that small spend has certainly succeeded in sowing division.

    The real question you want to ask is "did they collude"? And I think that is still unanswered.
     
  21. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    no i asked the question i wanted.

    you’re willing to wait for the report on trump, despite the mountain of circumstantial evidence.

    you’ve decided that no votes were swayed, with no evidence. this is something that is unknowable. yet you’ve decided. you should think about why you reached such baseless certainty, and what other conclusions that method of thinking might have misled you to.
     
  22. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    At what point in my post did I say I had decided? I said "I don't think they succeeded". This does not mean that I know for sure.
     
  23. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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  24. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    That would be the Obama administration, which we will hear about more soon from a couple guys named Horowitz and Huber.

    You keep doing you as well. Its entertaining.
     
  25. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    The cause of the attack was never a real issue. It was a manufactured issue about some shortly after-the-fact statements (some of which weren't even made by Clinton). That is why she asked "what difference does it make?" and that is what makes putting the issue as your #1 Clinton issue, after all those investigations, was a joke. You know it is intellectually puny to interpret my statement as supporting the failures that occurred.

    I see you've picked up the new trend on the right to label criticism as bullying... immediately followed by

    Oh, no.. bullying! Bullying!
     
  26. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Benghazi isn't my biggest issue with Clinton. In fact, I put more of the blame there on Obama and the overall intelligence/defense apparatus. Clinton has far bigger issues elsewhere in my mind.

    But as I've said before, I moved on...specifically because those investigations went nowhere. I only referenced them for context.

    Don't get me wrong...Trump is a bully of the highest order. No one is defending that (other than maybe Bixbyte). I simply brought it up as an observation on his different approach as POTUS, and why it has caused so much consternation on the Left.
     
  27. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    So now Benghazi isn't a serious criticism of Clinton.. but this all started because it was something you wanted her "strung up" for. I will not attempt to make sense of that.

    Similarly, Trump's bullying is OK and 'amusing', but my supposed-bullying (which it wasn't) is 'silly [and] childish'...
     
  28. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    You are twisting words. I did not say she wasn't accountable on this, only that she is more accountable on other issues, and others are more accountable than her on this. If you can't make sense of that very simple premise, then I can't help you.

    All bullying is silly and childish. It can also be amusing sometimes based on the response.
     
  29. Politburo

    Politburo Well-Known Member

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    Ah, well I am amused by your response to my 'bullying', if that soothes the wounds.
     
  30. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    Trump seeks to limit access to records seized in FBI raid | Associated Press

    At issue is exactly who gets to look at Michael Cohen's seized documents and devices before they are turned over to prosecutors. Attorneys for Cohen say they want first crack. Trump's lawyers say they also want some form of prior review. Another option is to set up a "special master" who will vet the material to determine what is protected and what isn't; that is the Cohen team's second choice.
     

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