Donald Trump Elected President

Discussion in 'National' started by Bixbyte, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I think there's stagecraft going on, but agree the reasoning is very unclear. My guess is that concessions were made privately to end such sponsorship, but I concede that is the optimistic (possibly even naive?!?) view.

    Either way, Trump *cannot* be that dumb to make it about the quid pro quo for his business ties. That would be easily proven and splashed all over the front pages, and a guy like that doesn't get to where he is at by ignoring that reality. He's certainly a lot of things, but he isn't that dumb.
     
  2. ShoshTrvls

    ShoshTrvls Well-Known Member

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    Are you for real? His self-dealing is already splashed all over the front pages, and he doesn't care -- as he said, he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and it wouldn't matter. And as for ignoring reality? That's about ALL the man does.
     
  3. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Yes, he's absolutely a talker...he runs his mouth and says and tweets all kinds of idiotic and crass things that don't reflect reality. But it is a distraction. As far as his actions go, I've seen a whole lot of realpolitik from him, and right or wrong, he's affecting change in a number of areas. I've said it all along, don't underestimate him based on the way he yaps.
     
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  4. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    I dont think this is an example of him being dumb, I'm just not sure he would care. He believes that a president cannot have conflicts of interest.

    Still, I would be very surprised if that was the ONLY thing going on here. (As I reason through this, I also realize that I would be VERY surprised if there was some plan for the greater good of the country at play as well. There are literally zero examples of him doing that as precedent.)

    Regarding his yapping. It seems likely to have landed him with a special prosecutor, and even after that, given that special prosecutor reason to believe he has tried to obstruct justice. I'm not sure his yapping is rational and/or part of any larger plan.
     
  5. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    As I've said before, he's an opportunist, not an idealist.

    As time goes on, I'm starting to think that his "plan" is just an innate knack for making people trip all over themselves in frustration with his style. He's so off the wall with his bluntness and crassness, and so under his critics' skin, that it causes them to make unforced errors. Those errors play to his agenda, even if they weren't planned out.

    And I do think you have a point that he just doesn't care.
     
  6. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    We agree that he doesn't care. We have some common ground.

    That would still be a plan. No plan could explain all of the times Donny acted in ways that hurt him and his own interests. There are many many examples of him undermining efforts to get him what he wants, then him getting angry about it. The travel ban is the most obvious, he cant' stop tweeting about it, despite the courts citing the tweets and Sean Spicer calling the tweets presidential speech. He just can't help himself. Another one would be his negotiating style. He publicly insults nations that he is seeking something from. This makes it politically impossible for these nations to compromise with him. Thereby undermining his negotiation.

    There are a few defining characteristics to his behavior, ignorance, vengeance, egotism.

    One of his problems (and he has many, many, many problems) is that he got a feedback loop working against him.
    Step 1. Require everyone to soothe your fragile ego
    Step 2. (Since everyone will never love you) When that doesn't happen, become enraged
    Step 3. Act on your rage in ways that are spiteful, crass, bullying, self reverential,
    Step 4. People dislike you because you are mean, crass, a bully
    Step 5. Go to Step 2

    There's a lot of talk about irony nowadays that mostly cites things that aren't ironic. However, it IS ironic that President for now Trump is so fragile and so needy, such a victim, and yet he cultivates a persona of such a tough guy, asshole, fighter.
     
    #756 MackeyDingo, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2017
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  7. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Perhaps he's not looking to compromise? Being aggressively on the offensive can often work to your benefit if you are in the stronger negotiating position.
     
  8. hkp

    hkp Señor Member

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    Agreed 100% and your point also seems to be corroborated with today's resignation of the US ambassador to Qatar.
     
  9. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I've read that she was already set to retire and this decision was made months ago?

    FWIW, this is not a Trump-only idea: Qatar and state-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia

    He's just a bit more "in their face" about it, in his own special way....
     
  10. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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  11. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps not. But he has united the entire world against himself, except for the...(there must be someone who doesn't openly hate him). So I'm not sure how that improves his position. And I know for a fact that isolating the USA does not make us stronger or safer.
     
  12. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    The problem with being in your face with Qatar is that we have ten thousand troops there on our 1 billion dollar base, and we launch our attacks against ISIS from there. (Wasn't ISIS supposed to be defeated by day 100?)

    Insulting them and uniting their enemies and aligning against them doesn't make us stronger or safer.
     
  13. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    I certainly don't have the answer here...I'm tossing out educated guesses. But I am assuming there are a LOT of behind the scenes stuff going on that gives some basis for the approach (e.g. the stagecraft angle). With that said, I don't disagree that the optics on this are not great...really would like more transparency here.
     
  14. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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    -------
    Wait lets roll back the clock a couple years Before Trump.
    Obama promised to
    End the war in Afghanistan in 2014
    "President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq and will end the war in Afghanistan in 2014."
    ______
    End the war in Afghanistan in 2014

    "President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq and will end the war in Afghanistan in 2014."

    Sources:
    BarackObama.com

    Subjects: Afghanistan, Foreign Policy, Military, Second Term Promise

    Updates
    Obama increases U.S. troops to remain in Afghanistan past 2016
    By Neelesh Moorthy on Wednesday, July 6th, 2016 at 1:34 p.m.

    President Barack Obama announced July 6, 2016, even more troops will remain in Afghanistan by the end of his term, a heightened departure from his failed promise to end the war in the country by 2014.

    Obama said 8,400 troops will remain when he leaves office, an increase from when he announced 5,500 troops will remain in October. And that came just seven months after he anticipated only an embassy presence by 2016's end.

    Updated - The Obameter: End the war in Afghanistan in 2014
     
  15. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Aaaaaaaaaaaaand now we have this: Pentagon Agrees To Sell $12 Billion In F-15s To Qatar | Zero Hedge

    I know the deal was done months ago, but one would assume Trump has a veto ability on it. So either this is a real life example of Littlefinger from Game of Thrones saying "Chaos is not a pit, it is a ladder", or this is an example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

    My hope is for the former...my gut says it is the latter.
     
  16. Big Irish

    Big Irish Well-Known Member

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    And now the Wash Post is reporting that Trump himself is under investigation for obstruction. So, we have people in his administration (& were connected to his administration) under investigation for collusion with the russians, we have people in his administration (& were connected to his administration) under investigation for possible financial crimes (taking money from foreign govts & either not reporting or under reporting that income), and of course Flynn and what he did or didn't say/promise to the russians during the transition, and whether Jefferson Beauregard had even more meetings with Kislyak (sp?) than the 2 he declined to mention during his confirmation hearing.

    And does anyone remember this:
    "Most honest people I know are not under FBI investigation, let alone two." - Kellyanne Conway, Twitter, Oct '16
     
  17. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    Very true. We often (read, I often) read the paper and think I know what's going on. Despite my knowing first hand, from years in military intel, that the papers only know part of a story and sometimes are off on their assessment.
     
  18. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    Arming everybody in the middle east to the teeth, gutting the State Department, and shifting that money to Defense Dept. I think I see a plan here...

    “If you don't fund the State Department fully, then I need to buy more ammunition ultimately," Mattis said
     
  19. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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    And to expand the quote and context:
    https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/13-07 - 3-5-13.pdf
    HEARING TO RECEIVE TESTIMONY ON U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND AND U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND IN REVIEW OF THE DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION REQUEST FOR FISCAL YEAR 2014 AND THE FUTURE YEARS DEFENSE PROGRAM

    TUESDAY, MARCH 5, 2013
    U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,
    Washington, DC.

    excerpt:

    Senator WICKER. Let me tell you. They are a group of more than 120 retired three and four-star generals and admirals, and they are coming on the Hill today to meet with members of Congress, not about the military budget, but about the international affairs budget, in other words what we call in shorthand foreign aid. Their message to me was what to some people might be a surprising message: We need to be very careful about cuts in foreign aid. They view it, General, as working hand in glove with our security operations that you two gentlemen are involved in.

    So I just wondered if you would comment on that. Have you ob- served that the international development budget is helpful to us in providing national defense for our country?

    General MATTIS. Yes, sir. I would start with the Department of State budget. Frankly, they need to be as fully funded as Congress believes appropriate, because if you don’t fund the State Depart- ment fully then I need to buy more ammunition ultimately. So I think it’s a cost-benefit ratio. The more that we put into the State Department’s diplomacy, hopefully the less we have to put into a military budget as we deal with the outcome of an apparent Amer- ican withdrawal from the international scene.
     
  20. johnnie

    johnnie F the Eagles

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    U libs have lost ur god damn mind.....continue ur echo chamber.....its hilarious to watch u unravel.....carry on
     
  21. boognish

    boognish Well-Known Member

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    Pretty obvious that it's you who's getting nervous.

    Love,
    A Republican for almost 30 years
     
  22. Jayfar

    Jayfar I'm very old®

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  23. Tartan69

    Tartan69 Pawn in game of life

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    Jayfar has the best memes
     
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  24. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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    Rumors Swirl Kennedy to Retire, Trump to pick his second Supreme Court Justice?

    The biggest news of all, though, would be if Justice Anthony Kennedy were to use the court's last public session on Monday to announce his retirement.

    Big cases, retirement rumors as Supreme Court nears finish



     
  25. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    That's all great but from where are you getting the information on which to base your "educated guess?" For myself, I stick to news sources that fire their employees when they are found to be wrong. Like CNN. And establishment institutions like the Times, WSJ, and occasionally the Post, though they are perhaps too energetically pursuing every lead. The point is, there is a large group of media that doesn't hold themselves accountable. There is also a large swath of mainstream right-wing media that simply ignores stories. Like Brietbart. Whos editor admitted on Real Time that he doesn't run any stories on Russia attacking our elections.

    Regarding POTUS and "basis for the approach," I have seen an unprecedented pattern of reports describing the president as uninterested in policy, details, and really governing in general. These seem supported by the way he speaks about things. For example many Republican staffers in congress have stated that Trump has no inkling of what is in the health care bill, which doesn't line up with his campaign promises. He was unaware of this as he celebrated the win in the Rose Garden on March 2. And seemingly remained unaware until June 2 when he called the bill "mean."

    There is really no information to support the idea that POTUS understands foreign policy, foreign relations, the Russia threat to our elections, healthcare, and other things. I'd love to see something showing otherwise. I really, really would.

    And if he has a plan, it seems to be a horrible plan based purely on accomplishments, considering the Republicans control all of government.

    EDIT: the only area I can think of where Trump has a coherent consistent message and is succeeding is his attack, is on the fourth estate, the entire institution of the establishment, accountable, press. Here he has been very consistent in labeling anything critical of him "Fake News." And step by step eliminating the access of the American public to the operations of the executive branch.
     
    #776 MackeyDingo, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  26. MackeyDingo

    MackeyDingo REALLY Well-Known Member

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    Donald Trump Elected President! Respect for America plunges worldwide!


    U.S. Image Suffers as Publics Around World Question Trump’s Leadership

    This graph only shows our European allies. The big NATO members who joined us in Afghanistan after we were attacked on 911. The nations that Republicans like to demonize. The people in the world who are closest to America in terms of values and respect for human life.
    [​IMG]


    This graph shows the full 37 countries on which the poll was based.
    [​IMG]

    Note: opinion of the US is up in Russia, where the kremlin controls the press.
    According to America's premier defense institutions (CIA, NSA, FBI, Military Intelligence, etc.) Russia is currently at war with us seeking to undermine our system of government which Trump is doing nothing about.
     
    #777 MackeyDingo, Jun 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
  27. Templeton

    Templeton Well-Known Member

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    Wait. I thought Obama was the divisive president? Not supporting or trusted by our allies and all that?
     
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  28. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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    About time they fired those CNN fake news reporters.
    Note: my insertion of Sic into story.


    CNN employees resign after retracted article

    Three journalists leaving (sic?) CNN after retracted article

    Three CNN journalists, including the executive editor in charge of a new investigative unit, have resigned after the publication of a Russia-related article that was retracted.
    Thomas Frank, who wrote the story in question; Eric Lichtblau, an editor in the unit; and Lex Haris, who oversaw the unit, have all left CNN.
    "In the aftermath of the retraction of a story published on CNN.com, CNN has accepted the resignations of the employees involved in the story's publication," a spokesman said Monday evening.
    An internal investigation by CNN management found that some standard editorial processes were not followed when the article was published, people briefed on the results of the investigation said.
    The story, which reported that Congress was investigating a "Russian investment fund with ties to Trump officials," cited a single anonymous source.
     
  29. Bixbyte

    Bixbyte Well-Known Member

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    Latest Trump Tweet
    Trump Tweeted a Video of Him beating up CNN in Wrestlemania


     
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