Rue 52 or Yupsters take 52nd Street

[Cro Burnham]

it was 1996 when I was sitting with a friend on his porch (4800 block of baltimore) when he told me what he liked about west philly was it was "gentrification proof". I disagreed, with an ivy league university 10 blocks away, amazing housing stock etc. it was only a matter of time. He saw the abandoned commercial buildings that filled baltimore ave at the time and the full-on open air drug market at 49th and baltimore and thought I was crazy. guess who now admits they were wrong? (answer, not me). In 25 years 52nd street will look different, the residential market has already changed and the commercial will follow, i bet ya.

49th Street has always sort of been the DMZ between University City and the Rest of West Philly between Chestnut Street and say Chester Avenue. That was true in 1996 and was even true when I was in elementary school in 1970s.

I'm not saying it can't happen, and I'd love for 52nd Street to become more socioeconomically and ethnically diverse, but in 35+ years since 1970, 49th Street has barely been breached by the University City contingent.

Baltimore Avenue from Penn out to 48th, for all its charms, is still a bit rundown. It's really not that different from the late 70s. I'd hardly call it gentrified. So I'm not sure where the unabashed optimism springs from - though I hope the optimists are right and my skepticism proves wrong.

I'd love to see 52nd Street and 60th Street, maybe one day even 69th Street (which has so much fantastic infrastructure, architecture, and urban feel) get fixed up. Unfortunately, 69th Street is getting worse by the day in most respects.

[boognish]

There's no need to hope. It's happening right now. Just look around.

I met my wife at a party west of 50th 10 years ago. She and a few dozen students from UotS (then PCP) lived there. Many of them stuck around with their six figure incomes.

And it's just my opinion, but not everyone needs overt signs of gentrification to claim that an area is a desirable place to live.

[annie]

I'm not saying it can't happen, and I'd love for 52nd Street to become more socioeconomically and ethnically diverse, but in 35+ years since 1970, 49th Street has barely been breached by the University City contingent.

If this was posted five years ago you might have been correct but not at all these days.

[Cro Burnham]

I stand corrected then - that's great!

I'm all for a little Creole Rue 52.

[jazzsinger59]

You are happy but not the people that live there,it is a threat. My mom and others who are retired and living on fixed incomes.They move in and want to dictate
to everyone on how to live. http://youtu.be/OFTHMMe_

[annie]

They move in and want to dictate to everyone on how to live.

Citations, please. And I've yet to meet a newcomer that isn't in favor of a homestead exemption for those that need it.

[boognish]

You are happy but not the people that live there,it is a threat. My mom and others who are retired and living on fixed incomes.They move in and want to dictate
to everyone on how to live. http://youtu.be/OFTHMMe_

I guess you're groovy with the shootings, crime, filth, & general malaise of the area over the past 30 years. Nice status quo.

Call me callous, but I don't feel terribly bad for people who are adverse to progress due to racism.

[jazzsinger59]

Growing up is was not like that.Crack is why you have what is there now
http://youtu.be/r2ECcFN8uqg
And guess who helped bring crack to the hood
http://youtu.be/LNgOe9jGzFE
gentrification is racism, not just black people but all Minorities,and poor people.

[annie]

I'm waiting for you to tell me specifically how newcomers to the area are attempting to dictate how longtime residents live their lives.

[boognish]

Growing up is was not like that.Crack is why you have what is there now
http://youtu.be/r2ECcFN8uqg
And guess who helped bring crack to the hood
http://youtu.be/LNgOe9jGzFE
gentrification is racism, not just black people but all Minorities,and poor people.

Crack was 30 years ago.

And unless I'm mistaken the city of Philadelphia is majority AA (aka black). So whitey is the minority.

[MarketStEl]

Plurality African-American (don't forget there are Asians living in the city too, and Hispanics count as separate), but who's quibbling?

I have a good friend who owns a couple of duplexes in the 5400 block of Chancellor Street. The housing stock on that block is unlike any other I've seen in the city - they're two-story structures with one full-floor apartment over the other, each with a porch, and the porches are topped by mock-Tudor roofs, some of which have been removed due to deterioration. A few of the houses on that block have been demolished, and one vacant lot where it's clear that a house had not occupied it used to house the development's ice house. My friend told me that this block was built around the turn of the last century as apartments for the upper middle class. No servants' quarters, but the ice house was an unusual amenity.

My friend is African-American like me, and he cut his intellectual teeth on black nationalism (I grew up integrated). He told me last summer that he advised his property-owning neighbors on the block to hold on to their buildings no matter what, for they would be really valuable in the not too distant future.

IOW, he's advised his neighbors to get ready to cash in on gentrification.

It amazes me that the people who paint gentrification as racism overlook the fact that there are African-American property owners who also stand to benefit from the process. Some - perhaps many - of them will opt to stay, for as owners, they don't have to move if they don't want to - unless the property taxes shoot through the roof as a result, and we can ameliorate that via policy. But some will opt to head for someplace else more their liking, and they will be able to pocket the gain in value of their homes.

This may not have been the case back in the 1970s, when redlining was far more pervasive than it is now, but it's certainly the case today.

There have been a number of research studies of late that also show that gentrification doesn't produce the widespread displacement critics say it does; what happens instead is that the wealthier new arrivals take the place of the poorer ones who used to move into such neighborhoods as part of a natural population turnover process that occurs in many U.S. urban neighborhoods. The poorer residents who remain also tend to enjoy better living conditions down the road than they would have if the neighborhood had remained all poor(er).

[Cro Burnham]

i hope some people don't reduce this thread to epithet slinging. it may not be a comfortable topic but that doesn't mean it needs to veer in to insults.

i disagree with jazzsinger's pov, but s/he never used characaturish language like "whitey". boognish, maybe you watched too much sanford & son and think all blacks talk that way. but redd foxx was just joking.

having said that, i think there are many (obviously not all, but a vocal minority) in blue collar neighborhoods in philly, white and black, but particularly black, who feel threatened on many levels but the influx of economically more "successful" people, and prefer socioeconomic and cultural isolation.

personally, i think those people should realize they could benefit from sharing a community with people of different lifestyles - just as newcomers could enrich and broaden their own lives by learning from the positive dynamics that exist - largely hidden from many of us outsiders - in inner city black neighborhoods.

my impression, though, is that there is a very vocal minority that really resents what it regards as an uninvited intrusion of people who look down on them and make them look bad by fixing things up. but a lot of people really could benefit from integrating, assuming they don't get priced out via taxes (which, of course, is a completely man-made, avoidable phenomenon with the right policies).

i think you need to open your mind up a bit, jazzsinger.

i'll probably get dismissed by a lot of people on both sides for this post.

[boognish]

why would you assume that the use of whitey is in any way some type of back-handed insult to jazz-singer?

I don't know what her race is. You're assuming she's black, I reckon. Pretty large assumption, so please spare me your faux-indignation.

I merely find it odd that the word "minority" is bandied about incorrectly.

[hammersklavier]

MKE--Those reports are interesting. I knew about the fall of displacement in gentrification theory, but the theory that gentrification is still following invasion & succession rules is new to me.

Although, come to think of it, it makes sense. I&S is all about waves radiating from the city core.

[seand]

You are happy but not the people that live there,it is a threat. My mom and others who are retired and living on fixed incomes.They move in and want to dictate
to everyone on how to live. http://youtu.be/OFTHMMe_

Wow. Just wow.

So that makes you different from telling people how and where they should live how exactly? Here "they" come with their baby strollers and dog-walking and yoga and gardening just ruining everything by you know investing in making their neighborhood a nice safe place to live and stuff. Damn them.

[Cro Burnham]

why would you assume that the use of whitey is in any way some type of back-handed insult to jazz-singer?

I don't know what her race is. You're assuming she's black, I reckon. Pretty large assumption, so please spare me your faux-indignation.

I didn't - it seemed like a front-handed insult.

And, yes, perhaps I'm wrong, but based on the context, I'm assuming jazzsinger is black. I'm sure you did too, though you can play dumb if you want.

You assumed jazzsinger was a female. So did I. Why? Who cares? You seem to be the one with faux-indignation pretending the word "whitey" didn't carry any inferences.

[jazzsinger59]

Please have you talked to people there. My mom people I grew up with and family. They don't like it.

[daveydoo]

I'm not saying it can't happen, and I'd love for 52nd Street to become more socioeconomically and ethnically diverse, but in 35+ years since 1970, 49th Street has barely been breached by the University City contingent.

I think the mistake you're making is starting the gentrification countdown clock at 1970. It took another 25 years before the crime associated with the crack epidemic started to drop. So really it's only been since the mid-90's that these neighborhoods began to rise ever so slowly because their prospects couldn't do anything other than improve.

[annie]

Please have you talked to people there. My mom people I grew up with and family. They don't like it.

STILL waiting for you to tell me specifically how newcomers to the area are attempting to dictate how longtime residents live their lives.

[Cro Burnham]

Please have you talked to people there. My mom people I grew up with and family. They don't like it.

Alot of people don't like alot of things. Doesn't make their preferences valid. I'm guessing they're going to have to get over it if what people on this board are saying is accurate.

As Annie has asked, why can't you share the specific grievances of people like your mom, the people you grew up with, and family? Then at least people have something specific to respond to rather than generalizations that are impossible to refute and easy to ridicule.