The deal with sidewalk seating on Baltimore Ave.

[seand]

So shortly after Dock St. first opened and it became clear that people wanted outdoor seating in the neighborhood, it was figured out that there was no zoning for "cafe seating" on Baltimore Ave. Our councilwoman decided that rather than setting up one standard process for everybody on the corridor that the solution she preferred was to pass a bill through Council for each and every business that wants outdoor seating. That way each business is reminded who's the boss and is more personally indebted to her, though its far from the simplest, most logical way to deal with the issue.

The one exception is if the outdoor seating is on your property line, so for example the Gold Standard's landlord actually owns the corner land in front of their resaurant so they don't need to go through the councilwoman.

Blackwell did do a piece of custom legislation for Queen of Sheeba for example but has been stringing Dock St. along for months and months (perhaps as one her often inscrutable "teach you a lesson" political moves). So if you go out to Dock St. and wonder why despite the warm weather and there being a waiting list for seating inside why there are no outdoor tables this year, you have the answer. Jannie has decided jerk around and string along Rosemarie Certo for reasons clear only to Jannie since basically last fall.

Way to promote business on the corridor.

[John Goodman]

i thought i had seen outdoor seating at dock st before

[seand]

Quick update. Dock St.'s going guerilla and putting out its table again, with or without action by Councilwoman Blackwell. So go enjoy your pizza and beer outdoors while it lasts.

[the_wza]

Quick update. Dock St.'s going guerilla and putting out its table again, with or without action by Councilwoman Blackwell. So go enjoy your pizza and beer outdoors while it lasts.

I realize I'm very late to the party on this issue, but since when are they open on Sundays? I thought there was some clause built in to their license that didn't allow them to be open on Sunday because one of the local churches opposed it. Did I imagine that or did that clause just expire?

[annie]

I realize I'm very late to the party on this issue, but since when are they open on Sundays? I thought there was some clause built in to their license that didn't allow them to be open on Sunday because one of the local churches opposed it. Did I imagine that or did that clause just expire?

Think that was just special for graduation weekend.

[seand]

RE: Dock St. and Sundays I believe its simply a signed Community Agreement with Cedar Park Neighbors and other neighborhood groups, not necessarily a legally binding condition of their liquor license. Or rather I'm not sure how enforcable it is in court, strictly speaking.

They have always had the ability to be open for fundraisers and special events on Sundays.

The outdoor seating rule also apparently applies to Vientienne (who also has never got the per location legislation from Blackwell) and has also gone "guerilla" on the outdoor seating, it seems.

I'm also not sure if Milk and Honey ever got the outdoor seating legislation either, come to think of it. Though I did see they opened another chain location, err "satellite location" on Logan Square. I'm sure the outdoor seating on Logan Circle is fully permitted, if not the West Philly mothership,

[TLP]

The hoops that the folks on Baltimore have to jump through aren't unique to Jannie's fiefdom... the process is complicated City-wide.

Sidewalk seating is only legal under the City Code in certain locations - Basically Center City, and portions of Germantown Ave and maybe Manayunk? If your business is outside of these areas, the process for getting sidewalk seating is two-step:

First, you need an ordinance passed to legalize sidewalk seating at that address. This is where you go to Jannie or your local councilmember and ask for help. (Given the magic of councilmanic prerogative, the decision is effectively up to them alone.)

If you get the ordinance passed, then you apply to Streets for a sidewalk seating permit. They ensure that you comply with all public access requirements (generally, 50% of the sidewalk must be left open.)

I don't disagree that the folks on Baltimore have to go through the ringer to get sidewalk seating, but it's not just Jannie doing this. It's the way the law is currently set up, and I don't think any councilmember would surrender their authority to make case-by-case decisions, even if passing a blanket ordinance for a commercial corridor is sensible.

[seand]

Why oh why wasn't this part of the new zoning code with one standard process for designated commercial strips?

[Scoats]

Outside of Center City, which has sidewalk seating by right, anywhere else in the city it's a nightmare. It took me 1.5 years to get sidewalk seating full approved.

[seand]

Outside of Center City, which has sidewalk seating by right, anywhere else in the city it's a nightmare. It took me 1.5 years to get sidewalk seating full approved.

Which is just dumb.

Its sort of obvious point to make but outdoor seating puts eyes on the street, changes the whole perception of whether a block is dangerous or not. Its hard for Raheem to gun down Rodney in full view of 15 diners just finishing their appetizer. If a neighborhood will support it and its on a commercial strip, why would you put up barriers to it?

[Scoats]

why would you put up barriers to it?

There are a few valid reasons for a little regulation. The city wants to make sure pedestrians can pass by. Also the next one might surprise you.

The real problem is that the right of sidewalk cafe actually gives you too many rights. It seems that I could build out my facade and have 365 day a year enclosed seating on the sidewalk. I can also build other less permanent barriers too. Because of that the city requires a $1000 surety bond if I go out of business and the city has to dismantle that. Trying to buy a bond in low of an amount, combined the required legal language that pretty much lets the city draw for any reason at all, is nearly impossible. That's another and really weird hurdle.

There should be another sidewalk cafe license with less rights that just allows for tables outside as long as so much of the sidewalk is clear for peds. And this one should be much easier to get. I for example never plan to have any barriers, meaning there will never be anything for someone else to be stuck removing.

[Jayfar]

There are a few valid reasons for a little regulation. The city wants to make sure pedestrians can pass by. Also the next one might surprise you.

The real problem is that the right of sidewalk cafe actually gives you too many rights. It seems that I could build out my facade and have 365 day a year enclosed seating on the sidewalk. I can also build other less permanent barriers too. Because of that the city requires a $1000 surety bond if I go out of business and the city has to dismantle that. Trying to buy a bond in low of an amount, combined the required legal language that pretty much lets the city draw for any reason at all, is nearly impossible. That's another and really weird hurdle.

Prime example (and these guys did it before it was legal at all):

broad walnut philadelphia pa - Google Maps

[seand]

There should be another sidewalk cafe license with less rights that just allows for tables outside as long as so much of the sidewalk is clear for peds. And this one should be much easier to get. I for example never plan to have any barriers, meaning there will never be anything for someone else to be stuck removing.

Yes obviously the sidewalk needs to be wide enough to get by and building an external enclosure seems to me be to be something explicitly other than just settiing out tables, just like putting a picnic table in your backyard is different from building an extended kitchen off the back of your house. One involves permanent structures and one is just putting out tables.