Watusi II is for sale. What would you like to see there?

**ACretin** · 04-18-2012, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by fuzzycraig

It was $1000, technically a few weeks after the bar reopened. I'm sure it didn't hurt, although it's difficult to draw a straight line between the councilwoman and the bar's seeming immunity to all city laws and regulations. If it is the case she fixed things for him, then the fact that $1000 can let you off the hook for $60K in back taxes is beyond unfortunate, it's embarrassing to the entire city.

My hope would be that, since the City Howl piece has highlighted the donation in conjunction with the bar reopening, Jannie will be less likely to help Noel out in the future. It would be nice if that effect would extend to other dead beats and absentee landlords, but I'm not holding my breath. It's amazing when you start to dig into these campaign finance lists how many donors don't live in the city. Just looking after their investments.

I was actually referring to earlier donations he has made previously to blackwell, having not read the thread ! Hah that's pretty funny with the timely $1000. smart though, definitely better to pay after receiving some help. then again, he does run a business in the neighborhood, which could in theory benefit the city in some way. if he paid his taxes. taxes are pretty damn high though (roughly 47% total combining everything), so there is substantial incentive to haggle about the tax bill and get it reduced ultimately after not paying it for a while, or decades.

**fuzzycraig** · 04-18-2012, 02:05 PM

Interesting City Howl piece today on the difficulties of getting delinquent properties taken care of. Spells it out very clearly. I think in the case of the Watusis and New Third World, the key is to ultimately make it too much trouble for him to operate the businesses. Calls to 911 for every infraction, complaints on the LCB website, calls to the nuisance bar task force at the DA, calls to UCD, and yes calls to the council woman's office may eventually help wear him down or at least alienate him from his friends in power.

**ACretin** · 04-18-2012, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzycraig

Interesting City Howl piece today on the difficulties of getting delinquent properties taken care of. Spells it out very clearly. I think in the case of the Watusis and New Third World, the key is to ultimately make it too much trouble for him to operate the businesses. Calls to 911 for every infraction, complaints on the LCB website, calls to the nuisance bar task force at the DA, calls to UCD, and yes calls to the council woman's office may eventually help wear him down or at least alienate him from his friends in power.

City Council could fix this pretty quickly by passing a law that allows the City to put delinquent properties up for sale, rather than stipulating (as City Council currently requires) that only a resident with $800 bucks burning a hole in his pocket can put a property up for sale. City Council has made it impossible for the City to put deliquent properties up for sale. Makes sense, huh?

**Ptolemy** · 04-22-2012, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by the_wza

Elena's is pretty gay friendly, FWIW.

Thanks for the 'heads up'! I'll have to try that place out!!!

**thoth** · 04-22-2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

Thanks for the 'heads up'! I'll have to try that place out!!!

Although it caters to an extremely diverse clientele, Dahlek always struck me as kind of an unofficial gay bar for our area. Of course it's also an unofficial hipster bar and old man bar while remaining officially an ethiopian bar, although sometimes in name only. So who knows.

**fuzzycraig** · 06-01-2012, 10:56 AM

Not sure exactly how these things work, but Watsui Pub 2 is listed for Sheriff's Sale on June 20th (see lot 21 on bottom of first page) http://www.law.com/image/pa/ads/taxsalejune20.pdf.

Interestingly, Watusi 1 is listed for Sheriff's Sale on June 4 --postponed from October! (see 6-642 on page 2).http://www.law.com/image/pa/ads/sheriff060512-3.pdf

Couple of questions:

Does anybody know how often -- or how seldom -- these sales go through as listed?
Is he able to operate the bars, while they're in the Sheriff's Sale process?
Is there anything neighbors can do to make sure this happens?
Is it way to early to get excited about this? Or can I do a little happy dance?

**thoth** · 06-01-2012, 02:22 PM

I'm pretty sure he has miraculously avoided sheriff's sale at least once before so I would temper your hopes accordingly. Why is 3rd World still not on there?

**annie** · 06-01-2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

I'm pretty sure he has miraculously avoided sheriff's sale at least once before so I would temper your hopes accordingly. Why is 3rd World still not on there?

Because he paid the taxes for New 3rd World not long after we starting chattering about it on here again. If he hadn't paid again this year, it would have met the minimum.

**thoth** · 06-01-2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by annie

Because he paid the taxes for New 3rd World not long after we starting chattering about it on here again. If he hadn't paid again this year, it would have met the minimum.

So he's just cutting his losses on the other two? Weird. I'm just waiting for some last minute BS courtesy of Blackwell.

**fuzzycraig** · 06-01-2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

Weird. I'm just waiting for some last minute BS courtesy of Blackwell.

I'm not convinced there won't be some weird BS. These are actually two different sales. The Watusi II is listed on a doc called "Sheriff's Tax Sale." The Watusi I is just "Sheriff's Sale." If somebody could explain the difference that would be great. But, importantly, the Watusi I sale is a postponed sale dating back to Oct. 2011.

C

**annie** · 06-01-2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

So he's just cutting his losses on the other two? Weird. I'm just waiting for some last minute BS courtesy of Blackwell.

The other two have tax balances that are huge. He's getting sued all over the place. I don't think he has the funds to pay the liens.

**seand** · 06-01-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzycraig

I'm not convinced there won't be some weird BS. These are actually two different sales. The Watusi II is listed on a doc called "Sheriff's Tax Sale." The Watusi I is just "Sheriff's Sale." If somebody could explain the difference that would be great. But, importantly, the Watusi I sale is a postponed sale dating back to Oct. 2011.

C

I believe the auctions at the beginning of the month are foreclosure sales and the one's in the middle of the month are tax lien sales, so Watusi I is for other kinds of debt and not back property taxes.

**fuzzycraig** · 06-04-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by seand

I believe the auctions at the beginning of the month are foreclosure sales and the one's in the middle of the month are tax lien sales, so Watusi I is for other kinds of debt and not back property taxes.

Thanks, Sean. That's helpful. Maybe you can answer this: Does a property owner recovery any money (such as the equity they have in a property) when it gets sold at sheriff's sale? There was an article in the Inky that seemed to imply as much. If that's the case, could Noel use the money raised through sale of the Watusi I tomorrow, to pay off the taxes he owes on the Watusi II before it goes to auction on the 20th?

C

**seand** · 06-04-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by fuzzycraig

Thanks, Sean. That's helpful. Maybe you can answer this: Does a property owner recovery any money (such as the equity they have in a property) when it gets sold at sheriff's sale? There was an article in the Inky that seemed to imply as much. If that's the case, could Noel use the money raised through sale of the Watusi I tomorrow, to pay off the taxes he owes on the Watusi II before it goes to auction on the 20th?

C

No, the sale is to recover money lost by the city, either in unpaid taxes or other liens (like from L&I, water department, PGW, etc.) or its a part of a sale conducted on behalf of a bank for foreclosure, as I understand it. Its a last ditch effort to minimize losses, typically. The bit in the article indicates that perhaps Sherrif Green improperly handled the redistribution of the proceeds but its not that the property owners would have received a payment from the sale. More likely that the sale should have cleared their debts on the property in the form of liens against it and he didn't send out a percentage of the proceeds to lien holders correctly and instead that the property owners both lost the property and still got stuck with the debt. So they are suing over debts that should have gotten cleared from the sale. Or thats how I read it.

With a sherrif's sale, the owner does have the right of redemption to pay off theit debts to the city in full (not just the proceeds of the auction) and recover the property. They have a year to raise the full amount, before the new owner owns it free and clear.

Arctic Splash or someone else probably knows the details a little better.

**annie** · 06-04-2012, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by seand

Or thats how I read it.

No, if it sells for more than the tax debts, the property owner gets the rest. That's what people are suing over.

But the first sale is a foreclosure sale so I don't think anything would go back to him. He's already lost it.

The second sale is a tax sale and he owes ~$70K. Watutsi II also has a city tax judgement on it in the amount of $170K.

**seand** · 06-04-2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by annie

No, if it sells for more than the tax debts, the property owner gets the rest. That's what people are suing over.

But the first sale is a foreclosure sale so I don't think anything would go back to him. He's already lost it.

The second sale is a tax sale and he owes ~$70K. Watutsi II also has a city tax judgement on it in the amount of $170K.

OK thanks. My mistake. It is conceivable that it could net as much as $240k but not likely. The large majority of sherrif's sales aren't profitable for the city, they are just an attempt to cut losses and put the property in the hands of someone new who will hopefully pay their taxes on it.

They used to not get much interest from normal people at auctions and they were only attended by a handful of professional flippers. Partially because it took so long for properties to get to sherrif's sale they almost never were conceivably worth more than was owed against them. Its a very recent phenomenon that the city would put it up to sale and the property be worth more than the debt.

I'm really not an expert on this at all. I did buy a property by sherrif's sale back in 2000 but because this was before they opened up the process to be more welcoming to the public and I really wanted to get a particular property, I paid one of the handful of professional flippers a small fee to be my agent. This made the process simpler for me but also possibly discouraged some of the other usual players from risking bidding on it.