New story: Catchment or not, Penn Alexander likely to turn lower grade students away for the first time

**Eastcoast** · 08-11-2011, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dolemite

Wait, haven't we learned anything from this PAS mess? Moving into a catchment doesn't guarantee anything.

and without that guarantee you will see downward pressure on home prices...check back with Queen Village in a few years.

**monkeyajb** · 08-14-2011, 03:50 PM

The petition from parents demanding that their children be allowed into PAS is bizarre and a little infuriating. The whole thing reeks of privilege and the tone of the petition is childish. "We live in this precious catchment now, don't make our kids go to Lea" is the least sympathetic thing I've ever come across. Long before the catchment, parents all over Philadelphia had to work hard to make sure the kids got the best, and the idea that the school district should somehow disregard it's deep dysfunction and the plight of 100,000 elementary aged kids so that 50-100 kids in one small sliver of the city get what they wanted? Pack your things and move to a suburban district where people who stomp their feet may be listened to.

**annie** · 08-15-2011, 08:01 AM

Sad to say I was right on this: Parents Camping Out for Penn Alexander Registration

I hope someone from PAS stopped by this morning and let people put their name on a list and go home rather than let everyone sit in the rain.

**Eastcoast** · 08-15-2011, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by monkeyajb

The petition from parents demanding that their children be allowed into PAS is bizarre and a little infuriating. The whole thing reeks of privilege and the tone of the petition is childish. "We live in this precious catchment now, don't make our kids go to Lea" is the least sympathetic thing I've ever come across. Long before the catchment, parents all over Philadelphia had to work hard to make sure the kids got the best, and the idea that the school district should somehow disregard it's deep dysfunction and the plight of 100,000 elementary aged kids so that 50-100 kids in one small sliver of the city get what they wanted? Pack your things and move to a suburban district where people who stomp their feet may be listened to.

So what do you say to people who paid a premium of say over 100k extra for their homes to be in a catchment for a particular school and are now told, "sorry we're full but feel free to send your child down the street to a school with a lesser reputation"? Suddenly their home has devalued by 100K and they are scrambling to find education options for their child that matches their original choice.

**Hanna** · 08-15-2011, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

So what do you say to people who paid a premium of say over 100k extra for their homes to be in a catchment for a particular school and are now told, "sorry we're full but feel free to send your child down the street to a school with a lesser reputation"? Suddenly their home has devalued by 100K and they are scrambling to find education options for their child that matches their original choice.

I would say that this is the perfect opportunity for people who care about education to do something about it! All neighborhood schools can be great with the help of engaged parents and the support of the community. People should not be connecting housing values and education in this way. All kids deserve a good education regardless of what their parents can shell out for a home.

**monkeyajb** · 08-16-2011, 08:24 AM

Yes, I agree with Hanna. I would also say that crying "I paid more for my house than everyone else in West Philly, so my kid deserves a better school than those poor kids" is another way to interpret your statement. And it pretty much encapsulates what a lot of people are thinking about you and everyone else complaining about capped enrollment. Oh ****! Someone paid a premium for a house, in an absurd real estate market, because someone told them their kid could go to the special school. It's hard to be sympathetic with that line of reasoning. Move to Lower Merion -- price per square foot is pretty comparable.

**Eastcoast** · 08-16-2011, 09:28 AM

Ok, thanks for setting me straight.

**itkos** · 08-16-2011, 11:01 AM

Given all the challenges facing the district, I can understand monkeyajb's lack of sympathy for parents living in the catchment area who want to see PAS continue to accept all students living in the catchment area. However, the suggestion that they should just move to a suburban district like Lower Merion where, "people who stomp their feet may be listened to" seems like a very bad outcome for the neighborhood. Moving to the suburbs to find better schools is precisely what parents who can afford it have been doing for decades - and that outmigration has hurt the city's tax base and contributed to the further deterioration of neighborhoods and public schools. Top quality schools like PAS help attract middle class families to live in the city, and that is good for the local economy. Of course, all Philadelphia schools should be improved and having a few highly successful schools like PAS doesn't solve those broader problems. But criticizing parents who have moved into a neighborhood (like the PAS catchment) for trying to assure that their children can attend the top quality neighborhood school just doesn't make sense.

**fuzzycraig** · 08-16-2011, 11:06 AM

I have no interest in getting into a message board war, but I did want to clear up some misconceptions about the people who live in PAS's catchment and who send their kids to the school. Are some of them wealthy? Yes, absolutely. Are many of them who are solidly middle class still wealthier than your average Philadelphian? No doubt. But there are plenty of families who rent in the catchment, plenty who have lived there since well before the property value boom, and plenty who frankly invested all they had so they could have the chance to live in this great city and still get a decent education for their kids. Is that such a horrible thing?

Although I've heard that PAS is getting whiter (or perhaps just less African American) and wealthier as the years go on, the student body is still far more economically and ethnically diverse than your average Philly school. I personally think that's what a healthy school looks like. Here's a description of the recent enrollment line from a comment on West Philly Local:

"...I was in that line, and am not one of the “privledged and wealthy”. I found someone to watch my child while we stood in line for 15 hrs, and had to miss work time to do it. There were long time residents bringing in line people new to the neighborhood; people of different cultures, those not speaking the best english, etc. Everyone was helpful to everyones needs, regardless of class, race, religions, wealth or language barriers. There were people who had their children with them in line until the last moment as well.... Perseverance was key to enrolling, not wealth."

The petition isn't asking for rich people to be allowed to go to their neighborhood school. It's very clear in asking that all students in the catchment be allowed to attend.

People can mock the folks who signed the petition. They can urge them to move to the suburbs, which some people are certainly considering. (And which, in my opinion, is really bad for the city). But you can't fault them for wanting a good education for their kids.

**Eastcoast** · 08-16-2011, 11:30 AM

I have seen the light, let's trash the whole catchment system and move to a lottery system.

It worked for San Francisco.

Right?

**JLM** · 08-16-2011, 12:16 PM

Very well said @fuzzycraig.

Additionally, for anyone who is trying to understand the perspective of PAS catchment parents & petition signers, I urge you to read Jon Grabelle Herrmann’s email which was sent to the UCNeighbors listserve and posted on the West Philly Local blog:

The grade school dilemma: One parent’s take | West Philly Local

**Hops** · 08-17-2011, 03:06 PM

Maybe my view is more simplistic, but I feel for the PAS parents who have more than one child who face splitting sibilings (because one is in the school already) by having to send them different schools because of the cap. I'm not in the district, but I sure would want both my kids to be at the same school. In addition, pick up and drop off to two different places for working and single parents during the school week would be chaotic.

**longtimephilly** · 08-17-2011, 03:31 PM

Would have loved to get my daughter into Lea's kindergarten classes, but they're full now. Oh well!

**Eastcoast** · 08-17-2011, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by longtimephilly

Would have loved to get my daughter into Lea's kindergarten classes, but they're full now. Oh well!

What catchment are you in, if you don't mind my asking?

**annie** · 08-25-2011, 10:42 AM

In response to demand for 2011-2012, the class size cap for the kindergartens at Lea has increased to 30. As of last night, there were three spots open. More places may or may not become available after the start of the school year if some students registered do not actually enroll.

Lea's Principal, Dr. Bell-Chiles, has said that they will be adding a teaching assistant to split time between the two classrooms. Ms. Mykytiuch usually has a Penn Graduate School of Education student teacher and Ms. McCloskey has expressed interest in having one this year as well.

On a policy level, kindergarten is not mandatory in the state of Pennsylvania and the school district does not have to have room for every child that wants to enroll for kindergarten. Consequently, students sometimes must go where ever there is room for kindergarten and then transfer to their neighborhood schools for first grade. In our neighborhood, this is exacerbated by the low kindergarten class size cap at Penn Alexander. For those interested, an organization that has been involved in lobbying the state to make kindergarten mandatory is Public Citizens for Children and Youth.

**annie** · 08-31-2011, 02:18 PM

Overcrowding Problems Lead Penn Alexander to Waitlist Kids

I find it very strange that the school and district is still mum on what school waitlisted PAS kids would get assigned to.

**longtimephilly** · 08-31-2011, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Eastcoast

What catchment are you in, if you don't mind my asking?

Sorry I missed your question. I'm in the Penn Catchment area. Wanna buy my house? It comes with the free opportunity to wait in line at a certain school!

**annie** · 10-20-2011, 09:47 AM

Possible changes from facilities plan in University City | Philadelphia Public School Notebook

A good and thoroughly researched article on Penn Alexander, Lea and Wilson. The Census data is interesting.

**boognish** · 10-21-2011, 02:26 PM

So here's my question: if the # of african american children is falling in the PAS catchment, what exactly is driving them out? Is it that rents have increased dramatically? Or that long-term residents realized that they could sell their homes for a huge profit? Having rented in the catchment for 10 years before buying in the neighborhood, I've not seen a dramatic increase in rental properties.

**annie** · 10-21-2011, 02:58 PM

I think it's a bit of both. Rents in the catchment have increased dramatically. For instance, a crummy two-bedroom apt for $1,400/month just because it was in catchment.