Local 44 and other Philly bars raided by LCB

[phillysw]

I see that someone is accusing someone as being the mysterious SuzieW in the comment section of in inquirer article this morning...

Who knows if that's the correct person or not or just another grudge being satisfied...

I was thinking the same thing.

Regardless of who the tipster was, I think it's safe to say that person's name will come out eventually, and he/she will be universally reviled by beer lovers all over Philly. I also think it's safe to say that the tipster is mentally unstable.

[eldondre]

Don't forget that as sentiment rose to abolish Prohibition, there remained parts of the country where the idea remained popular. Those historical photographs referred to upthread were exactly what the majority of Pennsylvanians did not want to see return after repeal; the state liquor code's preamble includes language about "forever abolish[ing] the open saloon," which should guide you to the animating spirit behind Pennsylvania's liquor laws.

that does nothing to support the notion the majority of pennsylvanians supported this idea, only that the people setting up the plcb retained those notions. probably the cricket club set.

And -- as we see here -- the Kafkaesque regulations create winners (State Store employees, microbrewers, beer distributors) and losers (six-pack buyers, convenience store and supermarket owners), and they create opportunities for mischief. Such a system collects parties interested in its maintenance like barnacles on the hull of a ship -- look at the stink beer distributors are raising over proposed changes that would make smaller amounts of beer more accessible. (Given what I said about "Pennsyltucky" above, it is worth noting that one of the more ardent proponents of the change is the Sheetz convenience-store/gas-station chain, which operates mainly in that part of the state.)

I don't think it's good enough to assume here. most of us aren't familiar enough with a wide enough swath of the state to make those assumptions I'd guess. one gripe the distributors have that's valid is that if supermarket scan sell beer, they should be allowed to sell grocery items. indeed, perhaps all distinction between the two should dissolve.

[Illiniwek]

one gripe the distributors have that's valid is that if supermarket scan sell beer, they should be allowed to sell grocery items. indeed, perhaps all distinction between the two should dissolve.

What's stopping anyone from opening a grocery store?

[seand]

What's stopping anyone from opening a grocery store?

I think the beer distributors mean they are strictly limited on what they can and can't sell. They were only recently allowed to be open Sundays for example. But yeah if the rules change, they can change their business model.

[the_wza]

Liquor licenses should be fairly distributed regionally and getting one should be about running a clean operation, not mortgaging three houses. Agreed.

And call me crazy but I think it should be licensed to a PERSON not a location. And the old licenses distributed to an address should be reviewed for accuracy and appropriateness since neighborhoods evolve with the times.

We have, for all intents and purposes, nuisance bar at the end of our residential street. It's less than a block from a daycare and an elementary school. Everyone who's lived on the block for more than 30 years has hated since it went in in the early 80s. It's sketchy, it known to serve minors, there have been shootings, it's loud, and it keeps property values down and drives families out and transients in. There is a sharp contrast between the bar end of the block and the other end and our hands are tied because the license belongs to the address.

[Reality Czech]

There is a sharp contrast between the bar end of the block and the other end and our hands are tied because the license belongs to the address.

Fairly certain the license belongs to the entity not the address.

I've noticed on liquor license applications posted outside of places about to open that they can transfer from one location to the next.

[Illiniwek]

I think the beer distributors mean they are strictly limited on what they can and can't sell. They were only recently allowed to be open Sundays for example. But yeah if the rules change, they can change their business model.

I repeat, what's stopping them from opening a grocery store?

[thoth]

And call me crazy but I think it should be licensed to a PERSON not a location. And the old licenses distributed to an address should be reviewed for accuracy and appropriateness since neighborhoods evolve with the times.

We have, for all intents and purposes, nuisance bar at the end of our residential street. It's less than a block from a daycare and an elementary school. Everyone who's lived on the block for more than 30 years has hated since it went in in the early 80s. It's sketchy, it known to serve minors, there have been shootings, it's loud, and it keeps property values down and drives families out and transients in. There is a sharp contrast between the bar end of the block and the other end and our hands are tied because the license belongs to the address.

This is really an issue of code enforcement more than a licensing issue. If police/L&I/PLCB would keep the bars in check and hold owners liable for trouble in their bars, you wouldn't have these issues. I don't think the problem is simply the existence of a sales point for alcohol.

As I travel more this realization strikes me over and over again. Here in Buenos Aires, also a very large, very dense city, there are bars at the end of virtually every block, but moreover, you can buy alcohol virtually anywhere. Street vendors, every cafe and restaurant, takeout joints, the supermarket, small grocers, even a tiny, barebones hostel I stayed at had beer behind the counter. Most actual bars stay open until 3 or 4 on weekdays, and often much later on the weekend. And if anything, public drunkenness and disturbances are LESS of a problem here than in Philly.

The cops are really strict about busting nuisance bars, and there are so many places to get alcohol that you rarely have a single hangout that people frequent over and over again. Also, because you can drink until late in the night, you rarely have the binge drinking I've seen in the US where people try to fit all there drinking in before 12 or 2am. In any event, I think the number/location of permits has little impact on the problems associated with drinking. As always, its about enforcement.

[eldondre]

I repeat, what's stopping them from opening a grocery store?

why should someone have to sell certain items or not sell certain items?

As I travel more this realization strikes me over and over again. Here in Buenos Aires, also a very large, very dense city, there are bars at the end of virtually every block, but moreover, you can buy alcohol virtually anywhere. Street vendors, every cafe and restaurant, takeout joints, the supermarket, small grocers, even a tiny, barebones hostel I stayed at had beer behind the counter. Most actual bars stay open until 3 or 4 on weekdays, and often much later on the weekend. And if anything, public drunkenness and disturbances are LESS of a problem here than in Philly.

The cops are really strict about busting nuisance bars, and there are so many places to get alcohol that you rarely have a single hangout that people frequent over and over again. Also, because you can drink until late in the night, you rarely have the binge drinking I've seen in the US where people try to fit all there drinking in before 12 or 2am. In any event, I think the number/location of permits has little impact on the problems associated with drinking. As always, its about enforcement

from what I've seen you have to leave the US for common sense alcohol policy (excepting england of course). let's end the stupid rules base don population, whether it fits a neighborhood, etc. none of that is the state's business and should be handled on a more local level. those gestapo mofos should be busting places known to sell drugs (you know, actually helping philly cops!) no stealing duvel.

[Hospitalitygirl]

Beer Radar Blog Archive The beer raid fiasco, cont'd

It's just getting weirder.

[thoth]

why should someone have to sell certain items or not sell certain items?

from what I've seen you have to leave the US for common sense alcohol policy (excepting england of course). let's end the stupid rules base don population, whether it fits a neighborhood, etc.

Yeah amazingly every other country is somehow not being burned downed by drunken yahoos. Now if they only had good beer....

BTW, Argentina decriminalized drugs last year and amazingly the streets here are comparatively free of drug dealers. Hmm, its almost like there's a pattern here...

none of that is the state's business and should be handled on a more local level. those gestapo mofos should be busting places known to sell drugs (you know, actually helping philly cops!) no stealing duvel.

the_wza's neighborhood has apparently dealt with a nuisance bar for 30 Years. I'm sure numerous people have complained about it during that time, but it persists from owner to owner. Yet one person rats out some bars for selling unlicensed craft beers (quel dommage!) and you get a strike force of three squads of state troopers the next week. What a system.

[raider.adam]

Yeah amazingly every other country is somehow not being burned downed by drunken yahoos. Now if they only had good beer....

And this leads to a support of my statement about "judge the policy and not the movement". Let us remember Prohibition was part of the Progressive movement.

Always scrutinize specific policies whether they are labeled progressive, conservative, liberal, dynamic or static.

[Syrinx2112]

The bar owners should find a good lawyer and take the PLCB to court for this!

[MayfairMeat]

I repeat, what's stopping them from opening a grocery store?

I can't ever figure out why a state like Texas, which is roughly the same size as France, can do just fine in the wet counties with allowing just about anybody to sell beer and wine, which can be sold on Sundays. I grew up in the Catholic end of the state people worship Shiner Boch and it's not unusual to see the old lady at the grocery store with a shopping cart overflowing with wine and little space for bread, milk and cheese.

Only hard liquor, which can only be purchased at a liquor store, cannot be purchased on Sunday--which is part and parcel of a pack of Old Western public decency laws, like no shooting dice and playing dominoes on the Lord's day, etc.


And dry counties in Texas are a friggin' joke. When clusters of counties went dry, there was always the one adjacent county that would stay wet, and if you look at tax revenue comparables between the dry and wet counties, the wet county has more money because naturally there's more retail--which also happens to attract Wal-Mart (hey... these people all have to drive to Duvall County for beer... let's put our store there!) and so-on.

Not to mention most of the dry counties in North Texas are situated with a few hours drive away from Louisiana, which for the longest time had a lower age of majority than TX and the drinking age was 18.

So of course on the weekends, the kids put on their nut hugger jeans and convoys of vehicles head to Shreveport to go have fun and spend (where there's also casinos), and the only revenue TX gets to see is the gas taxes from people refueling to make the trips.



Moral: You can't legislate objects out of existence. When you do, people will go to great lengths to obtain the object if there is demand.

[seand]

Beer Radar Blog Archive The beer raid fiasco, cont'd

It's just getting weirder.

OMG. They can't really be that stupid can they?

So they get coaxed into a selective raid of local bar because of one "informants" vendetta. The press reports that embarassingly a lot of the beer seized are legal and really popular brands but the PLCB just had the name slightly wrong.
Instead if correcting the error they double down on it and raid a local wholesale distributor hoping to seize all the Duvel Belgian Ale (because it doesn't say Duvel Beer) they can only find they would need to have taken a tractor trailer to seize it all.

So basically not just Local 44, Resurrection Memphis Tap but every restaurant , bar or sixpack shop that serves good beer is going to feel ripple effects of their utter incompetence.

I'm suddenly getting a much clearer picture of who this Liquor Control Enforcement officer leading the charge is.

[seand]

The bar owners should find a good lawyer and take the PLCB to court for this!

Actually Duvel's importer and Origlio Beverage and half the restaurants in town should consider a class action suit against the PLCB at this rate.
Beer Radar Blog Archive The beer raid fiasco, cont'd

[Hospitalitygirl]

Steve Lopez didn't call this state, Pennsylvania...Land of Giants, for nothing.

[Voodoo]

I'm suddenly getting a much clearer picture of who this Liquor Control Enforcement officer leading the charge is.

I'm thinking it's more of a team effort.

[Syrinx2112]

Actually Duvel's importer and Origlio Beverage and half the restaurants in town should consider a class action suit against the PLCB at this rate.
Beer Radar Blog Archive The beer raid fiasco, cont'd

I agree, they should. As stated on my new facebook page I created in response to this uproar, the prohibation ended well over 50 years ago and it's high time for the PLCB to knock it off for once! Duvel's importer, Origlio Beverage and the city's restaurants really need to come together and file a massive class action suit. Enough is enough!

[the_wza]

Always scrutinize specific policies whether they are labeled progressive, conservative, liberal, dynamic or static.

amen adam. as i always say, a-holes come in every shape and color.