Proof the suburbs are going downhill

[MarketStEl]

Thank you for educating me on something I already educate people who don't know anything on everyday. Seriously, I'm from the area.. who do you think you're educating here? Ridley Twp is also a suburb of Chester, by the way.

Once again.. trying to educate me on MY AREA. Really? I grew up there. You spent a year working in Chester, in the most isolated, nicest part of it, and you think you know the whole county? They were industrial huh? No sh*t! My neighborhood was built around mills! That closed down a long time ago, and what was left of it (minus the refineries) closed down in the late 90s-early 2000s, when white flight hit Southwest Philly and everywhere near it, including my hometown. Please do not attempt to educate me on a place you only visited when I grew up there. I find it a tad bit insulting.

Now, let me educate you on what you don't know. No, come to think of it, I'll just find that post from before because I don't feel like going through it again. http://www.philadelphiaspeaks.com/fo...tml#post485639

The parts of the county that are ghetto are because of the schools districts they're in. Upper Darby is a good school district (for the area it's in) that also encompasses Clifton Heights and Millbourne. The ghetto has really only officially crept a few miles outside of Southwest Philly to this point. It's taken over some of the SE Delco SD and William Penn SD but that's it right now. The area is a lot more complex than you think.

Never read either that post or the thread. You did get one thing off in it: Ridley Park lies along the Pennsy* - the Reading had NO tracks or service south of the Reading Terminal.

Hey, you had asked folks - rather peevishly - if they'd ever been there. Just establishing my credentials that I had. As for Ridley Township, forgive the omission - and Nether Providence Township, while we're at it, though the stretch of Chester Road (Providence Avenue in Chester) that passes through it is relatively undeveloped compared to the other thoroughfares leading into Chester City from bordering communities. Would never have considered Swarthmore a Chester suburb despite its proximity**, perhaps because it seemed to me to be oriented to the college and the PRR West Chester Branch line to Philly. But since you seem to believe that I'm lumping things together that I still can't REALLY know anything about because I didn't live there for years - a view that is somewhat insulting to the human ability to learn from observation, among other things - yes, I know Widener is in the nice, (onetime) wealthy part of Chester, which I-95 neatly sliced off from the rest of the city (well, if you wanna get nit-picky about it, the ex-B&O, now CSX, railroad line had already done that, sort of; I-95 just made the moat larger). I would occasionally walk the distance from campus to Chester station on the R2 via Avenue of the States, and the contrasts were, and are, striking. I found downtown Chester particularly sad because you could see clearly what the place once was but is no longer - including the former offices of the (no longer) Chester Times (the paper moved to Primos; I frequently had dealings with Daily Times staff and editors because I worked in Widener's media relations office).

You aren't the only person reading this thread. Some others may not know this stuff. You seem to be upset at those folks. They too may not have read that post or thread.

*well, if you wanna get rail-historical nit-picky about it, the Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore, which the PRR leased for 999 years in the late 1890s.
**although Tom Wolfe DOES get the relationship: the fictional "Dupont University" in his novel I Am Charlotte Simmons is clearly based on Swarthmore, and its nearness to Chester is a major plot driver. Edited to add one more thing: And yes, I also know that Widener and Swarthmore used to be football rivals until Swarthmore dropped football.

And one more thing: Spending five days a week commuting there for a year and a half, and passing through many of those communities mentioned in that post, including Lansdowne, East Lansdowne, Upper Darby, Springfield, Yeadon, Darby and the communities along the R2 I'd hardly call "only visiting". Sure, it's not LIVING there, but one can gain some familiarity with a place simply by repeated exposure to it. That chip on your shoulder is not a fashion accessory.

[randomuser]

Never read either that post or the thread. You did get one thing off in it: Ridley Park lies along the Pennsy* - the Reading had NO tracks or service south of the Reading Terminal.

Hey, you had asked folks - rather peevishly - if they'd ever been there. Just establishing my credentials that I had. As for Ridley Township, forgive the omission - and Nether Providence Township, while we're at it, though the stretch of Chester Road (Providence Avenue in Chester) that passes through it is relatively undeveloped compared to the other thoroughfares leading into Chester City from bordering communities. Would never have considered Swarthmore a Chester suburb despite its proximity**, perhaps because it seemed to me to be oriented to the college and the PRR West Chester Branch line to Philly. But since you seem to believe that I'm lumping things together that I still can't REALLY know anything about because I didn't live there for years - a view that is somewhat insulting to the human ability to learn from observation, among other things - yes, I know Widener is in the nice, (onetime) wealthy part of Chester, which I-95 neatly sliced off from the rest of the city (well, if you wanna get nit-picky about it, the ex-B&O, now CSX, railroad line had already done that, sort of; I-95 just made the moat larger). I would occasionally walk the distance from campus to Chester station on the R2 via Avenue of the States, and the contrasts were, and are, striking. I found downtown Chester particularly sad because you could see clearly what the place once was but is no longer - including the former offices of the (no longer) Chester Times (the paper moved to Primos; I frequently had dealings with Daily Times staff and editors because I worked in Widener's media relations office).

You aren't the only person reading this thread. Some others may not know this stuff. You seem to be upset at those folks. They too may not have read that post or thread.

*well, if you wanna get rail-historical nit-picky about it, the Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore, which the PRR leased for 999 years in the late 1890s.
**although Tom Wolfe DOES get the relationship: the fictional "Dupont University" in his novel I Am Charlotte Simmons is clearly based on Swarthmore, and its nearness to Chester is a major plot driver. Edited to add one more thing: And yes, I also know that Widener and Swarthmore used to be football rivals until Swarthmore dropped football.

And one more thing: Spending five days a week commuting there for a year and a half, and passing through many of those communities mentioned in that post, including Lansdowne, East Lansdowne, Upper Darby, Springfield, Yeadon, Darby and the communities along the R2 I'd hardly call "only visiting". Sure, it's not LIVING there, but one can gain some familiarity with a place simply by repeated exposure to it. That chip on your shoulder is not a fashion accessory.

You're right, however it was the PW&B that built the borough, not the Penn.

I'll agree with you there about Chester's downtown. What I really don't like is the way the county tried to act like it wasn't their city anymore when things got bad. They abandoned the eastern parts of the county too, sure, but Chester was a major city at one point that was a big part of building Delco and they just turn their backs on it? That's not right. Also, Swarthmore College was established when Chester was an industrial power and had major influence. Were places like Swarthmore made as suburbs of Chester? No, not necessarily, more like what the Main Line was to Philadelphia I would think, but they were influenced by and suburbs of Chester nonetheless. I will say though that you obviously know more than other non-natives do... I'm guessing you taught history?

I'm not the only one reading it, no, but you quoted me. You responded to me, not to them.

Lol chip on my shoulder? You don't know me buddy. And actually, no, it's still visiting. You got to know Chester, yes, but that's really it. That's my area (minus Chester). I've been there most every day for the majority of my life. I grew up going to 69th street, to every part of the county minus Chester and Yeadon, for various reasons because it was my world then. It's more than a little insulting for you to try to educate me on the area. What you don't get, is that those areas how you see them now is simply the outside reflecting what the inside has been for a long time. They all lost their industries a long time ago and were only safe and relatively stable because of the people living there. That's got nothing to do with race either, though I know ignorant people try to make it out to be the reason (obviously not referring to you here, as you're not a suburbanite from the ritzier parts of the county, no matter where you're from) but about the deterioration of the working class. That's why, no, you didn't actually get to know the areas by passing through. You only got to know what somebody who doesn't live there knows. Going through the schools in that area opens up the realities of the communities there. Things might be on the surface more now but they've been there in the shadows of those communities and in secret for a long time now. However, I will say that the regional rail does not pass through the greatest parts of these areas so I will concede that you at least saw them. Still, driving through parts like that (as you mentioned going through Springfield and other parts not on the PT lines to Chester), you're sheltered from a lot of the realities in the side neighborhoods, realities that really don't come out during the day. If you had gotten out and walked around the side streets of those neighborhoods, you would understand what I mean by that.

As for the way I've responded towards you. Well, two things. One: As I said, it's insulting to try to educate me on an area I'm from and you only visited. Two: As you said, neither you nor I are the only ones reading this thread and I need to attack any misinformation spoken about the area, no matter how small or who it's said by. Otherwise, we have more dumb threads like this made by people without a clue when it comes to the area.

[DCnPhilly]

It ain't machismo, kid. See what happens.

And I'm not talking about me. I said "in front of the people who live there" for a reason. Attitude doesn't get received well in that area.

Again, not painting a pretty picture of the area.

[randomuser]

Again, not painting a pretty picture of the area.

You think I honestly care? It is what it is. The people in eastern Delco are some of the best people on Earth, hard-working people who have dealt with quite a bit. If you don't want to deal with the rules then don't involve yourself with that area. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that there are people out there who don't take sh*t from anybody, not even you. It's true all the same though.

[MarketStEl]

Thanks for your further replies, both on these boards and in private, btw. I do need to correct one minor misimpression I think I left:

However, I will say that the regional rail does not pass through the greatest parts of these areas so I will concede that you at least saw them. Still, driving through parts like that (as you mentioned going through Springfield and other parts not on the PT lines to Chester), you're sheltered from a lot of the realities in the side neighborhoods, realities that really don't come out during the day. If you had gotten out and walked around the side streets of those neighborhoods, you would understand what I mean by that.

While I have driven through most of these same parts of Delco, in particular the areas along Baltimore Pike, most of my non-rail travel through this area was as a passenger on either the Route 109 or Route 113 buses. Hence my passage through East Lansdowne, which the 113 goes through and the 109 skirts. The 113 also goes through Yeadon - though not its heart - and Darby, so I did get to see some more of the really cruddy parts of southeastern Delco.

[OffenseTaken]

You think I honestly care? It is what it is. The people in eastern Delco are some of the best people on Earth, hard-working people who have dealt with quite a bit. If you don't want to deal with the rules then don't involve yourself with that area. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that there are people out there who don't take sh*t from anybody, not even you. It's true all the same though.

What you're not understanding, kid, is that positively no one here is maligning the character of the people of eastern Delaware County. In whole or part. All that's been said is that the near future looks bleak for some of their towns. Kid. Most folks over there would not construe this as a personal attack, so speak for yourself when you do. Know what I mean, bro?

[randomuser]

What you're not understanding, kid, is that positively no one here is maligning the character of the people of eastern Delaware County. In whole or part. All that's been said is that the near future looks bleak for some of their towns. Kid. Most folks over there would not construe this as a personal attack, so speak for yourself when you do. Know what I mean, bro?

Kid? Call me kid to my face and see what happens you little punk. That attitude may fly on the net but not in RL so watch your damn mouth, buddy. Think I'm f*cking playing with you, tough guy? Come find out. Come call me kid to my face. See what the f*ck happens you little internet hardass.

Actually, you are. Not only did you clueless newcomers insult people in places more working class than plenty of places in the metro by lumping them in with the places spoiled suburbanites (which I'm sure is exactly what you yourself are) come from, but you gloated about places that were already hard-hit having more problems due to your gentrification. The icing on the cake was the fact that you tried to insinuate that somebody not taking sh*t from anybody means that person is low class. Far from it, KID. Those people have more class than you ever will.

I ain't your bro, b*tch.

[ArcticSplash]

Kid? Call me kid to my face and see what happens you little punk. That attitude may fly on the net but not in RL so watch your damn mouth, buddy. Think I'm f*cking playing with you, tough guy? Come find out. Come call me kid to my face. See what the f*ck happens you little internet hardass.

Actually, you are. Not only did you clueless newcomers insult people in places more working class than plenty of places in the metro by lumping them in with the places spoiled suburbanites (which I'm sure is exactly what you yourself are) come from, but you gloated about places that were already hard-hit having more problems due to your gentrification. The icing on the cake was the fact that you tried to insinuate that somebody not taking sh*t from anybody means that person is low class. Far from it, KID. Those people have more class than you ever will.

I ain't your bro, b*tch.

What a way to wield your historical and intellectual prowess.

Before you also accuse me of being a suburbanite, I come from a rural area. In deep South Texas, where there's more cattle than people.

So back to my dissing of Bensalem. I point out that town specifically for a few reasons: it's growth since 1985 had mostly to do with the as-you-call it working class of Philly getting a ticket out by moving there. Out of Philly's close burbs, I rank Bensalem #3 on the list as the home of many of the owners of rental properties and nuisance businesses.

Bensalem is going down because of a rapid building of new housing stock (Pulte had just started a big branch office in nearby Trevose to manage the build-out), and a lot of the influx during the housing boom were on sub-prime mortgages. Those borrowers imploded back in '07 and since then their homes have been rented out in droves, at cheap enough rents that older rentals have lowered in price, hence the term "Kensalem".

I'm not saying Bensalem is gonna turn into Croydon, but Bensalem has already crossed that threshold where there's too much rental.


Since a lot of Philly slumlords also happen to live in Bensalem, it actually warms my heart that their area is goin down.


I wish the same could be said for Huntingdon Valley, which is the No 1 place where Philly bums rest their heads at night.

[Sycamore]

Kid? Call me kid to my face and see what happens you little punk. That attitude may fly on the net but not in RL so watch your damn mouth, buddy. Think I'm f*cking playing with you, tough guy? Come find out. Come call me kid to my face. See what the f*ck happens you little internet hardass.

Actually, you are. Not only did you clueless newcomers insult people in places more working class than plenty of places in the metro by lumping them in with the places spoiled suburbanites (which I'm sure is exactly what you yourself are) come from, but you gloated about places that were already hard-hit having more problems due to your gentrification. The icing on the cake was the fact that you tried to insinuate that somebody not taking sh*t from anybody means that person is low class. Far from it, KID. Those people have more class than you ever will.

I ain't your bro, b*tch.

And this is why I don't live in DelCo any longer.

[Burholme06]

Again, not painting a pretty picture of the area.

Wow, sorry I stopped in here. A debate in words on the internet usually makes it difficult to punch someone as Randomuser seems to need to do to get closure in the discussion. Maybe we can add an animated fist punching as an emoticon to show that he is punching you and then everything will be fine.

[NickleDimer]

And this is why I don't live in DelCo any longer.

That... and your divorce.

[Sycamore]

That... and your divorce.

What? That changed nothing for me. I still live in the house I shared with my ex.

[OffenseTaken]

kid

kid

kid

Call me kid to my face and see what happens you little punk.

...

[JasonMcElroy]

Don't forget . . .

buddy

buddy

little punk

tough guy

Jason

[Brooke]

When's that monthly happy hour when you need it?

[randomuser]

What a way to wield your historical and intellectual prowess.

Before you also accuse me of being a suburbanite, I come from a rural area. In deep South Texas, where there's more cattle than people.

So back to my dissing of Bensalem. I point out that town specifically for a few reasons: it's growth since 1985 had mostly to do with the as-you-call it working class of Philly getting a ticket out by moving there. Out of Philly's close burbs, I rank Bensalem #3 on the list as the home of many of the owners of rental properties and nuisance businesses.

Bensalem is going down because of a rapid building of new housing stock (Pulte had just started a big branch office in nearby Trevose to manage the build-out), and a lot of the influx during the housing boom were on sub-prime mortgages. Those borrowers imploded back in '07 and since then their homes have been rented out in droves, at cheap enough rents that older rentals have lowered in price, hence the term "Kensalem".

I'm not saying Bensalem is gonna turn into Croydon, but Bensalem has already crossed that threshold where there's too much rental.


Since a lot of Philly slumlords also happen to live in Bensalem, it actually warms my heart that their area is goin down.


I wish the same could be said for Huntingdon Valley, which is the No 1 place where Philly bums rest their heads at night.

My historical and intellectual prowess did not need to be wielded. My pride, backbone, and moral fiber did, so I wielded them.

Not even remotely surprised by that.

And there is no discussion. You didn't talk about Bensalem in the beginning or even throughout the thread now did you? No, you talked about places that have been just as working class as the parts of Philly they border for centuries now. You misspoke and insulted quite a few people in the process. You want to gloat about Bucks and Montco having problems (even when you're not actually from a Philly hood) then I'll join you in that but don't ever lump Upper Darby or any other part of eastern Delco in with them again.

And this is why I don't live in DelCo any longer.

You and I may be from the same county but we are NOT from the same area. Don't ever get that twisted. I don't care what you think of eastern Delco one bit. I don't care what you think about me. You want to turn your nose up at people who are true old-school, tough-minded people then go right ahead but don't expect any of us to give a crap, and don't expect any of us to just take it lying down.

Wow, sorry I stopped in here. A debate in words on the internet usually makes it difficult to punch someone as Randomuser seems to need to do to get closure in the discussion. Maybe we can add an animated fist punching as an emoticon to show that he is punching you and then everything will be fine.

When you say certain things, you are provoking a physical altercation. Don't say them and you won't be provoking them.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. I learned it when I was like six.

...

Don't forget . . .









Jason

You're both right. I disrespected the sh*t out of him the second he insulted me. And you know what? I'd be glad to back up every bit of that disrespect like a man. That's the difference. I called him "kid" to emphasize the fact that I don't respect him or view him as an equal and I don't think he can actually back up a bit of his attitude.

That's what I grew up with. Got a problem with it? Well I really don't care because I never asked you your opinion and neither did any of the people in areas like the one I grew up in.

[randomuser]

Tell me, what's the point of posting in this thread exactly? What's the point of posting in any "the suburbs are getting crappy" thread? How many of you have even ventured into some of these places?

Seriously, houses in Marcus Hook (one of the places some douchebags mocked on this thread) has houses that sell for less than 50K! You seriously think it's been anything even remotely resembling a suburb at any point? And for the other thread.. Upper Darby and Colwyn, ever seen their housing prices in parts? You know nothing.

[Politburo]

I don't care what you think of eastern Delco one bit. I don't care what you think about me.

Your rants say otherwise.

[Sycamore]

You and I may be from the same county but we are NOT from the same area. Don't ever get that twisted. I don't care what you think of eastern Delco one bit. I don't care what you think about me. You want to turn your nose up at people who are true old-school, tough-minded people then go right ahead but don't expect any of us to give a crap, and don't expect any of us to just take it lying down.

Bwahahahaha! You clearly care a great deal about what other people think of eastern DelCo and its residents. Knowing that I grew up in Media and Swarthmore tells you nothing about me. You're a fool, Skippy, to think that you can tell someone's worth, class, attitude or upbringing by merely knowing where they grew up. Isn't that the point you're attempting to make (very poorly).

[JasonMcElroy]

That's what I grew up with. Got a problem with it? Well I really don't care because I never asked you your opinion and neither did any of the people in areas like the one I grew up in.

I grew up in housing projects in Nether Providence and Woodlyn. Does that qualify me in any way?

I'm well familiar with street posturing, fighting at the drop of a hat and heavy shoulder chips. Took a long to time to drop mine and I suspect there's still a little residue remaining.

While I'm not ashamed of where or how I grew up, I'm not puffed up with pride about it either. I took my lessons, observed and learned what I could and made an informed decision to get the f uck out.

As for the Delco people being salt-of-the-earth (or whatever other euphemism you might have used), you may be right. However, it's mighty tough for people to connect with that through the hard, bitter shell which you seem to exemplify. I had many quality hard-working people as mentors growing up. Many times I didn't like them because I didn't understand the context of where they were coming from only to appreciate them after-the-fact. I dealt with a lot of petty hard-nosed as sholes too. Guess you get all kinds no matter where you're from.

If it seems there's no point to this. . . you got the point perfectly.

Arguing over which backgrounds legitimize or falsify one's assertions is ridiculous.

Jason