Is your stance on gay marriage in line with whatever faith you practice?

[seand]

It is equal in nature to the five that "cry out for vengence" according to the catechism of the Catholic Church.

(1) Wilful murder - the blood of Abel, [Gen. 4:10]

(2) The sin of the Sodomites, [Gen. 18:20; 19:13]

(3) The cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, [Ex. 3:7-10]

(4) The cry of the foreigner, the widow and the orphan, [Ex. 20:20-22] and

(5) Injustice to the wage earner. [Deut. 24:14-5; Jas. 5:4]

Really? The Catholic catechism puts people oppresed by their government, injustice to wage earners and mistreatment of foreighners widows and orphans that high in importance?

If the majority of Catholics took that to heart in every day practice you would think they would be a lot of raving "socialists" by contemporary political standards. How can you get all bent out of shape about abortion and homosexuality and be OK with say anti-immigrant legal persecution or slashing of social welfare for orphans and widows when catechism puts them on such high footing?

Do you have a source for all 5 of these being of equal value?

[seand]

Really? The Catholic catechism puts people oppresed by their government, injustice to wage earners and mistreatment of foreighners widows and orphans that high in importance?

If the majority of Catholics took that to heart in every day practice you would think they would be a lot of raving "socialists" by contemporary political standards. How can you get all bent out of shape about abortion and homosexuality and be OK with say anti-immigrant legal persecution or slashing of social welfare for orphans and widows when catechism puts them on such high footing?

Do you have a source for all 5 of these being of equal value?

I don't see any of that here.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Simplified

Homosexuality is a side not on adultery and its active sexual practice is considered a "disorder", perhaps medical.

On the other hand

Ensuring Human Rights (1928-1930)

Society must ensure social justice, the conditions that allow individuals and associations to gain what is their due.

Social justice demands respect for the dignity of the person. "What is at stake is the dignity of the human person" (Pope John Paul II).

Society must respect the person's inalienable rights (which existed before society and are the moral basis for society's authority). "By unjust laws, the state undermines its own legitimacy" (Pope John XXIII). The Church reminds men of their rights but distinguishes these rights from unwarranted claims.
Respecting Other's Rights (1931-1933)

Everyone should look upon his neighbor as "another self." Laws cannot do away with all the fears, prejudices, and selfishness which destroy society. Such behavior will end only through charity which sees others as neighbors.

Being a "neighbor" is especially urgent toward the disadvantaged. "As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me" (Mt 25:40).

This commandment of love extends to those who think differently from us and even to our enemies. The liberation of the Gospel is incompatible with hatred for an enemy, even though we truly hate the evil he does.
Removing Discrimination (1934-1935)

All men have the same nature, the same origin, and an equal dignity. All are redeemed by Christ's sacrifice and are called to heavenly glory.

Equality among men rests upon the person's dignity and rights. "Every form of discrimination must be eradicated as incompatible with God's design" (Second Vatican Council).
Unequal Distribution (1936-1937)

At birth man does not have all he needs for full development. Therefore, he needs others. However, differences appear in physical and mental abilities, wealth, etc. These are not equally distributed.

This unequal distribution is part of God's plan, so that man can share his blessings with those in need. These differences actually oblige persons to practice generosity. Jesus said to St. Catherine of Siena, "I have not given everything to one single person, so that you are constrained to practice charity towards one another. I have willed that one should need another."
Sinful Inequalities (1938)

Unfortunately, there are also "sinful inequalities" which affect millions and are open contradictions to Jesus' Gospel. "We must strive for fairer conditions because the social disparity is a human scandal which militates against justice, equity, and peace (Second Vatican Council).

Surely a lot of individual Catholics would view forms of discrimination against gays and lesbians built into existing civil law as violation of those people's innate civil rights and human dignity- and by extension a violation of the catechism.

[JoeBaker]

Looking for moral guidance from the Catholic Church is similar to getting advice on family values from Charlie Manson.

Maybe you should go to Church more. You seem to have a misunderstanding of its teachings.

And here's some light reading for you:

Clergy and Other Professionals

Something from the article the Catholic bashing press hasn't told you:

"...the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests."

[Litter Box]

Maybe you should go to Church more. You seem to have a misunderstanding of its teachings.

And here's some light reading for you:

Clergy and Other Professionals

Something from the article the Catholic bashing press hasn't told you:

"...the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests."

The Catholic Church has been covering up abuse for decades and protecting the abusers not the children. This is way more than a single church here and there but more like organized crime on an international scale. Read the link I provided about Ireland. With the wall the church has built you have no idea how large the problem is. This is like an iceberg with most of the problem hidden.

[MarketStEl]

Churches and their "views" have me fed up. Sexuality doesn't belong in church and I don't need to know what other people are doing in bed. When the heck did this come into play?

I was raised old-line Episcopalian and I no longer go to Episcopal church because they were always throwing gay sexuality in our faces. In the past few years the Episcopal Church got into the business of "allowing" openly gay clergy and now transgender clergy. Why even discuss it? I go to church to pray and be with fellow Christians. That's it.

I was a financially contributing member of Holy Trinity Episcopal Church on Rittenhouse until the new assistant priest a few years ago introduced herself by writing a letter in the church newsletter saying that she is in a happy openly gay relationship, living with her partner. That was it for me. I don't need people flaunting their sex lives in my face, espcially my clergy.

The numbers of people going to Episcopal church has dwindled because of things like this and their financial stability has also declined because their contributors have dwindled.

Had you gotten a letter from the assistant priest saying, "My husband and I are happy to be part of the Holy Trinity church community," would you have found that objectionable?

If not, then that's why we make such a stink about mentioning things like that now. It may sound paradoxical to you, but in order to hasten the day when our personal relationships with significant others (NOT what we do in bed; heterosexuals don't talk about that either) is merely talk around the water cooler, we have to talk about them more now, not less. As they say, doing this helps everyone "get used to it."

I agree that we should be free not to talk about our relationships and personal lives or have to listen to someone who is talking about them. But unless we do, too many people will continue under the mistaken assumption that they know no one who is gay or lesbian. What the past couple of decades have taught us is that the more people know they DO know someone, the less likely they are to support discrimination against LGBT people. (This shows most markedly as a generational shift; the young are far more accepting than their parents, who are probably close to my own age.)

--Sandy, who attends St. George's Episcopal in Ardmore

[JoeBaker]

Read the link I provided about Ireland.

I did.

I just hope you read my link so your perspective is not all one-sided.

[Giavella Water]

That's an unfortunate side effect of political correctness. Many on the Left are reluctant to criticize anyone but the main ingredient in the main ingredient in the melting pot, and in this case its Christians. I personally don't believe that I need to be forgiven for being gay, anymore than having premarital sex or eating bacon on Sunday, but at least Christianity offers forgiveness. Many other religions aren't as kind to their sinners. Christianity had its dark days and let's hope those never return, but I don't think those calling for stonings represent the majority of modern Christians, they're just the loudest. I think many gay people misguidedly view other religions as partners in a marginalized society, while the reality is many are even more disgusted by homosexuality than the loudest Christian. It's funny, and a bit sad, that Liberals can demonize the entire Christian faith based on a few fringe sects and orthodox beliefs, but the moment one criticizes Judaism or Islam, its racism or bigotry. In my opinion, they can all be pretty ugly, judgmental, and should keep their opinions within their congregations.

Don't forget the left and the LGBT's reluctance to critisize the 'Black Churches ' objection to the gay lifestyle. I've never heard of Act Up going into a black church and throwing condoms.

[mixiboi]

Don't forget the left and the LGBT's reluctance to critisize the 'Black Churches ' objection to the gay lifestyle. I've never heard of Act Up going into a black church and throwing condoms.

That because they have posters

Ministers attack billboard depicting gay black men in church

[FKD19124]

Really? The Catholic catechism puts people oppresed by their government, injustice to wage earners and mistreatment of foreighners widows and orphans that high in importance?

If the majority of Catholics took that to heart in every day practice you would think they would be a lot of raving "socialists" by contemporary political standards. How can you get all bent out of shape about abortion and homosexuality and be OK with say anti-immigrant legal persecution or slashing of social welfare for orphans and widows when catechism puts them on such high footing?

Do you have a source for all 5 of these being of equal value?

Do you always twist around what people tell.you? You are not even Catholic yet a Christian so why do you even care?

[FKD19124]

The Catholic Church has been covering up abuse for decades and protecting the abusers not the children. This is way more than a single church here and there but more like organized crime on an international scale. Read the link I provided about Ireland. With the wall the church has built you have no idea how large the problem is. This is like an iceberg with most of the problem hidden.

Now we are on child abuse. Why don't you look at all the organizations that cover up child abuse. You can rip the. Catholic church all you want
but tell me what other organization has done more for people than anyone else? The government?

[Litter Box]

Now we are on child abuse. Why don't you look at all the organizations that cover up child abuse. You can rip the. Catholic church all you want
but tell me what other organization has done more for people than anyone else? The government?

That gives the Church a pass on child molestation and covering it up, you have weird morals.

[DCnPhilly]

That gives the Church a pass on child molestation and covering it up, you have weird morals.

Gay marriage, what a conveniently timed distraction. Defenders of Catholicism can say what they want about gay marriage, I don't want to get married in a Catholic church, I want to get a marriage license at City Hall like any other secular person. That licence entitles me to less potential danger towards religious folks than a drivers license. I have no intention or desire to change the Catholic church. Religion is a private club that can exclude who it wants. I'm an American, not a Christian, so keep it out of my court house.

[FKD19124]

so,,,,can tell me when the Vatican ever endorsed child moletsation?
Weird morals? Just recently the Episcopalians just ratified chagnes for transgender ordination rites as well as rite of burial for pets.
Weird morals?

That gives the Church a pass on child molestation and covering it up, you have weird morals.

[Litter Box]

so,,,,can tell me when the Vatican ever endorsed child moletsation?
Weird morals? Just recently the Episcopalians just ratified chagnes for transgender ordination rites as well as rite of burial for pets.
Weird morals?

Indulgences went away a looong time ago. Sandusky did a lot of good things, does that make up for molesting kids. If you cannot see the fact the vatican did nothing is the same as the Penn State Board doing nothing then you're blind.

[FKD19124]

So should Penn State fold up and close forever?

Indulgences went away a looong time ago. Sandusky did a lot of good things, does that make up for molesting kids. If you cannot see the fact the vatican did nothing is the same as the Penn State Board doing nothing then you're blind.

[Litter Box]

So should Penn State fold up and close forever?

Anyone who knew anything about Sandusky should be gone or in jail. How high up should the blame go in the Catholic Church ? Anyone who covered up the crimes should be in jail !

[toxigal]

Martin Luther exposed the corruption in the Church at the time with the paying of indulgences, which by the way was squased at the council of Trent back in the sometime in the late 1500s. Yet protestant churches still speak of the RC church as still doing so. Talk about staying in the dark ages. As a result, if you thumb through the yellow pages, you will see a listings for more than 100 protestant type churches who cannot agree on teachings of the church.

Indulgences went away a looong time ago. Sandusky did a lot of good things, does that make up for molesting kids. If you cannot see the fact the vatican did nothing is the same as the Penn State Board doing nothing then you're blind.

indulgences are not gone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/ny...ml?_r=1&ref=us

[FKD19124]

paying for them is. It was ruled an error during the council of Trent back in the 1500s.

indulgences are not gone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/ny...ml?_r=1&ref=us

[seand]

Ooooh. Ooooh. A fight over Martin Luther.

Maybe we can stage a full-blown bloody renactment of the Reformation, phillyspeaks style.

[seand]

Do you always twist around what people tell.you? You are not even Catholic yet a Christian so why do you even care?

Because you appear to be distorting the actual catchism to be even more conservative and closed than it actually is. I'm not Catholic, but I suspect you don't speak for all Catholics either.