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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    Sorry took it the wrong way, I hope anyway.
    FWIW, my own belief is that the existence or nonexistence of Christ is largely irrelevant. The idea of Christ exists. The purported teachings of Christ exist. People believe and act on those teachings and ideals, so Christ has real impact on the world, and a real-world presence. Even if he is just an idea. If your belief in Christ makes you happier or gives your life more meaning or grants you the slightest bit of peace, I wouldn't try to dissuade you from that belief in the least. If you read the thread I linked to, though, you'll see Humber isn't about that at all.
    Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Head View Post
    FWIW, my own belief is that the existence or nonexistence of Christ is largely irrelevant. The idea of Christ exists. The purported teachings of Christ exist. People believe and act on those teachings and ideals, so Christ has real impact on the world, and a real-world presence. Even if he is just an idea. If your belief in Christ makes you happier or gives your life more meaning or grants you the slightest bit of peace, I wouldn't try to dissuade you from that belief in the least. If you read the thread I linked to, though, you'll see Humber isn't about that at all.
    No attention here paid to what Humber is saying just putting a word in for Jesus. I had my doubts about Jesus so I
    researched the matter about 15 years ago and arrived at the conclusion that he did live. As to the God part it would
    be a matter of faith of course. A very objective account is Gibbons 17thC "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire".

  3. #63
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    Oh, humber is back.

    Hi humber.

    Design Yes, Intelligent No

    LULZ @ ID.

    Hi everyone, how have you been?

    Quote Originally Posted by applecartt View Post
    You asked, “Why is it intelligent to conclude that there is a designer present when only a select few have claimed to witness the designer?”

    Easy. When you look at artwork done long ago in caves, you know human intelligence was behind the art, but no living person ever saw the designer. There is a faith element, too, but we also know by experience that works of art generally are made by fellow humans. To conclude that there was no human intelligence would be stupid.

    Okay. Now that I have answered your question, would someone here try to answer my question found near the end of my original post?

    On another matter, someone wrote, “Since time doesn't really exist,” but time is very real. How many of you have watches? Why would anyone watch what does not exist?

    Another wrote, “…why is it so bad to just admit that believing the biblical story of earth's creation is faith? why does it have to be ‘science’?”

    When you enter I-95, you have faith that the car behind is not going deliberately to run you off the road. Sometimes an accident will indeed happen, but in general we have faith in the other driver. We also have faith that the car just ahead of you will not fall apart. It was put together using science, etc. Science and faith can go together. We interact with them in tandem daily.

  4. #64
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    Post #54 asked, “Please explain the statement 'our DNA is coded with three-dimensional information'.”

    Not only is the information in 3 dimensions, it is in 4 dimensions, changing with time and need. One example of this is that the three-dimensional shape of enzymes conform with the three dimensional configuration of the molecules in the reactions that they catalyze, and their function is to break them down into components by bending them into a shape where that reaction is speeded up. But once there is enough of the end product produced, that end product bonds onto the enzyme, forcing it into a different conformation, effectively shutting off the reaction. It behaves much like a servo mechanism.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by applecartt View Post
    Post #54 asked, “Please explain the statement 'our DNA is coded with three-dimensional information'.”

    Not only is the information in 3 dimensions, it is in 4 dimensions, changing with time and need. One example of this is that the three-dimensional shape of enzymes conform with the three dimensional configuration of the molecules in the reactions that they catalyze, and their function is to break them down into components by bending them into a shape where that reaction is speeded up. But once there is enough of the end product produced, that end product bonds onto the enzyme, forcing it into a different conformation, effectively shutting off the reaction. It behaves much like a servo mechanism.
    So, if you are going to claim that this wonder of our DNA is intelligently designed, and give credit for it's marvelous engineering to baby jesus or whoever, does that mean that we can lay all the associated problems with it at your designers feet as well?

    DNA repair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your designer is either 1) a bad designer, 2) was drunk on the job, or 3) is a sadistic a$$hol€.

    Maybe all 3?

    You must hate your god to pile all these failing upon him. At least i am an atheist and can admit that they are the sad but inevitable side effect of evolution.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by niloroth View Post
    So, if you are going to claim that this wonder of our DNA is intelligently designed, and give credit for it's marvelous engineering to baby jesus or whoever, does that mean that we can lay all the associated problems with it at your designers feet as well?

    DNA repair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your designer is either 1) a bad designer, 2) was drunk on the job, or 3) is a sadistic a$$hol€.

    Maybe all 3?

    You must hate your god to pile all these failing upon him. At least i am an atheist and can admit that they are the sad but inevitable side effect of evolution.
    Hey who can disprove that evolution didn't evolve a God.

    I'm aware of more unbelievable life forms on this earth.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by niloroth View Post
    So, if you are going to claim that this wonder of our DNA is intelligently designed, and give credit for it's marvelous engineering to baby jesus.
    I just can't understand why folks like this denigrate Jesus. Martin Luther King,
    Abraham Lincoln, and Luke embraced Jesus along with an endless line of others.
    My serious take on those that attack Jesus? Uninformed at best.
    From Wikipedia:
    Although a few scholars have questioned the existence of Jesus as an actual historical figure[46] most scholars involved with historical Jesus research believe his existence can be established using documentary and other evidence.[47][48][49][50][51][52] As discussed in the sections immediately below, the estimation of the year of death of Jesus places his lifespan around the beginning of the first century AD/CE, in the geographic region of Roman Judaea.[53][54][55][56][57] The New Testament also refers to the Sea of Galilee which is about 75 miles north of Jerusalem.[58]

    Roman involvement in Judaea began around 63 BC/BCE and by 6 AD/CE Judaea had become a Roman province.[59] From 26-37 AD/CE Pontius Pilate was the governor of Roman Judaea.[60] In this time period, although Roman Judaea was strategically positioned between Asia and Africa, it was not viewed as a critically important province by the Romans.[61][62] The Romans were highly tolerant of other religions and allowed the local populations such as the Jews to practice their own faiths.[

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUCas View Post
    I believe that was his point. Time does not exist, it's fallacy. Creationists claim, among other things, that God created time. Since time doesn't really exist, it's just a human perception, the claim that God created something that doesn't exist suggests that human perceptions about the existence of God are equally fallacious.
    It would be difficult to top this unqualified view.

  9. #69
    enyo is online now Senior Member
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    Default Science Channel - 10 Plagues of Egypt Explained

    Has anyone seen this show. I thought it was pretty interesting and fit into the overall scheme of Science and Religion. Here's a synopsis I found online

    The Plagues happened at the same time as a massive volcano eruption. The volcano Santorini sent ash in to the air effecting the surrounding area. The ash is found in Cairo and the Nile River, proven by testing the composition of the ash. This volcanic eruption happened between 1500-1650BC while the Plagues happened between 1400-1550BC. So it fits there.

    1st Plague. River ran red LIKE blood. But there is a common algae plume called the Red Tide. This makes the river, or any water, look red like blood. Why did this happen? The ash changes the PH level of the river allowing the algae to bloom.

    2nd Plague. Frogs. The algae is killing fish. Fish eat frog eggs. No fish, record number of frogs. Frogs can't live in polluted water and so leave the river.

    3rd and 4th Plague. Lice and flies. The translation can actually be lice, fleas, gnats, or midges. But you have riverfull of dead fish, and now dead frogs. This brings the insects of the 3rd and 4th Plague.

    5th Plague. Pestilence. Flies, dead frogs, dead fish, easy enough no?

    6th Plague. Boils. Certain types of flies that bite can leave behind boils. The bites get infected, they turn in to boils.

    7th Plague. Fire and Hail. Ash in the air causes a mixture of ash and water. The ash, very high in the air, causes the water to freeze so when it falls it is hail and not rain. The fire? I saw this amazing picture in Nat. Geo. of a volcanic eruption. There was red lightning. It was amazing to see bright red lightning. Why is it red? Chemicals in the ash makes red lightning. So fire in the sky, and hail.

    8th Plague. Locusts. Locusts come about when the ground is very damp. They bury their eggs in the sand about 4-6 inches. After record amount of hail the ground would be very wet allowing the locusts to form.

    9th Plague. Darkness. Ash in the air. After am eruption in 1815 there was darkness for 600 kilometers. After Krakatoa it was dark for even farther for days.

    10th Plague. Death of First born. In Egypt the first born was king. They would be the one to lead the family after the father died. When food was scarce the first born ate first and some times was the only one to eat. After locusts ate every thing there was only grain locked in vaults. The hail got it wet, locust feces, it made it moldy. And so when only the first born ate, they were the only ones killed by moldy grai

    The Science Behind The 10 Plagues Of Egypt, page 1

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by enyo View Post
    Has anyone seen this show. I thought it was pretty interesting and fit into the overall scheme of Science and Religion. Here's a synopsis I found online
    Do you have a point to make? I didn't think so.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    Hey who can disprove that evolution didn't evolve a God.
    Great. Produce God, or any physical artifact thereof, and we can have that discussion.
    Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

  12. #72
    enyo is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    Do you have a point to make? I didn't think so.
    Overly sensitive? Thought so.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Head View Post
    Great. Produce God, or any physical artifact thereof, and we can have that discussion.
    Better yet, disprove a higher power that may have evolved as well.

    Along those lines also disprove good, and evil. Good luck.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by enyo View Post
    Overly sensitive? Thought so.
    I didn't think you had a point.

  15. #75
    hkp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    Better yet, disprove a higher power that may have evolved as well.

    Along those lines also disprove good, and evil. Good luck.
    Disprove that the world was created by an intelligent giraffe species from a distant solar system.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    Better yet, disprove a higher power that may have evolved as well.
    Sure. Since you or anyone else can't show me a higher power, or any evidence of one, they don't exist. Something that doesn't exist can't evolve.
    Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Head View Post
    Sure. Since you or anyone else can't show me a higher power, or any evidence of one, they don't exist. Something that doesn't exist can't evolve.
    You can't disprove a higher power. Jesus is already proven as one of the finest men our world has seen.

    Again, you can't disprove that there is a God.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitboss View Post
    You can't disprove a higher power. Jesus is already proven as one of the finest men our world has seen.

    Again, you can't disprove that there is a God.
    Sorry. Your inability to produce any actual evidence of a higher power or a God is all the proof necessary.
    Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Head View Post
    Sorry. Your inability to produce any actual evidence of a higher power or a God is all the proof necessary.
    Sorry, you gotta do better than that Bob. If you really want me to produce evidence of a higher power I will Bob,
    maybe not tonight though.
    If you want evidence of an evil power I can cover that as well. In the meantime could you share your thoughts about
    Jesus? Was he a joke, or an Icon? Commit yourself dude...

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Head View Post
    Sorry. Your inability to produce any actual evidence of a higher power or a God is all the proof necessary.

    Any Medal of Honor recipient, any fireman that charged up the Twin Towers staircase in a selfless attempt to save
    others.

 

 

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