Public Meeting on AVI

**EJW** · 01-16-2013, 01:48 PM

Public Meeting on Property Tax Overhaul - January General Membership Meeting | SOSNA | South of South Neighborhood Association

an airing of grievances... send questions in before 1/21.

**Eastcoast** · 01-16-2013, 03:15 PM

Will tar and feathers be supplied or is it a BYOTF affair?

**bootsywannabe** · 01-16-2013, 03:55 PM

"Send in your questions early" ha - what a bunch of BS. Pretty clear already they don't want real input or a real discussion. I'm sure the ladies from the PEW will get plenty of time to speak though, as will our political class.

One thing I'd like to know: how much have they spent in the last 5 years on AVI and OPA, etc., including computer systems, new hires, pensions, benefits, etc.

Close to $50 million would be my guess. Gee that's a great deal for taxpayers. And now we get to pay for that and more. but wait there's more. we also won't see any reform of our bloated City government and it's juicy pension and benefits system, which most existing and retired employees don't have to pay for at all! Great stuff.

I'm sure the best though will be when carpet-bagger extraordinaire Johnson borrows a Clarke line and blames tax hikes on yuppies.

**Bixbyte** · 01-16-2013, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by EJW

Public Meeting on Property Tax Overhaul - January General Membership Meeting | SOSNA | South of South Neighborhood Association

an airing of grievances... send questions in before 1/21.

Do Not Forget next election
Remove all City Council Members
Whatever Mayor your council members endorse vote for the other fellow or girl.
They all have to be eliminated.
One Week to air your grievances?
On such a huge issue as how to pass the tax from the corporations to the homeowners.
Cut me a break.
What a bunch of Crap.
Pew makes me want to puke.

Do not forget to bring Pitch Forks and Torches to the AVI Meetings.

**EJW** · 01-17-2013, 09:11 AM

FWIW, my questions:

1) Will the full set of AVI assessment data be made public?

2) Has the assessment program taken into account the effect of the new proposed tax on home values? In other words, a home with a $300,000 market value and a current annual tax of $1500 will not be worth $300,000 when it is being taxed at $4000 under AVI.

3) Will anything be done to fix the sheriff's office in conjunction with AVI? Already, there is more than half a billion dollars owed to the city that it doesn't collect. With AVI being implemented, we are likely to see many, many more delinquent properties - is there going to be anything done to either force them to pay or to expedite the home auction process? If not, how will that assumed revenue be realized? Through tax increases?

4) Has a minimum tax level been established and if so how was it determined? Previous statements indicated that the minimum amount a home owner would be required to pay is $100 per year... which doesn't cover the cost of trash pickup, let alone other city services consumed. Obviously this isn't fair to other owners. Has it been moved upwards since?

5) Is there any plan to help residents who have real estate taxes escrowed, due to mortgage obligations? When purchasing a home, buyers generally determine how much house they can afford based on monthly payments (which include taxes), but recent buyers could soon be facing an increase in several hundred dollars per month, which obviously was not budgeted for.

**NorthPhilly** · 01-17-2013, 10:25 AM

Great questions. Are they allowing questions on the spot or does everything have to be submitted prior so they can avoid the questions they can't answer?

**EJW** · 01-17-2013, 10:27 AM

My understanding is that questions must be e-mailed in before

**devilspocket** · 01-17-2013, 12:25 PM

The purpose of the meeting is to educate and inform residents about this complex process, and allow neighbors to raise questions and concerns about the AVI process. Yes, we will be allowing people to submit questions night-of on note cards. The only limiting factor in terms of questions will be time; Shiloh has been generous enough to host this meeting and we can't overstay our welcome.

**Glugz** · 01-17-2013, 01:30 PM

I would just like to add that SOSNA has provided for 30 minutes at the end of the program for an open forum where neighbors will have an opportunity to directly ask questions and raise concerns.

**Bixbyte** · 01-17-2013, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by devilspocket

The purpose of the meeting is to educate and inform residents about this complex process, and allow neighbors to raise questions and concerns about the AVI process. Yes, we will be allowing people to submit questions night-of on note cards. The only limiting factor in terms of questions will be time; Shiloh has been generous enough to host this meeting and we can't overstay our welcome.

Wow submit questions on cards. How information friendly for the majority.
If Nutter and his clown posse City council smell a loop hole they will be able to quietly write out new laws to facilitate no lawsuits.
This city is controlled by a bunch of fascists.

**bootsywannabe** · 01-18-2013, 11:27 AM

Oh wow a whole 30 minutes of "open" discussion. that's great. but the other 3 hours of the meeting the politicos get to cherry pick the questions they answer. and then, after all that BS, then maybe a teensy weensy little discussion, if anybody is left around. What a joke.

**Spicoli** · 01-19-2013, 09:02 PM

What's the over/under on the number texts/tweets/facebook posts KJ makes while the meeting is ongoing? I'll put it at 17.5.

**sharkey** · 01-21-2013, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by EJW

FWIW, my questions:

1) Will the full set of AVI assessment data be made public?

2) Has the assessment program taken into account the effect of the new proposed tax on home values? In other words, a home with a $300,000 market value and a current annual tax of $1500 will not be worth $300,000 when it is being taxed at $4000 under AVI.

3) Will anything be done to fix the sheriff's office in conjunction with AVI? Already, there is more than half a billion dollars owed to the city that it doesn't collect. With AVI being implemented, we are likely to see many, many more delinquent properties - is there going to be anything done to either force them to pay or to expedite the home auction process? If not, how will that assumed revenue be realized? Through tax increases?

4) Has a minimum tax level been established and if so how was it determined? Previous statements indicated that the minimum amount a home owner would be required to pay is $100 per year... which doesn't cover the cost of trash pickup, let alone other city services consumed. Obviously this isn't fair to other owners. Has it been moved upwards since?

5) Is there any plan to help residents who have real estate taxes escrowed, due to mortgage obligations? When purchasing a home, buyers generally determine how much house they can afford based on monthly payments (which include taxes), but recent buyers could soon be facing an increase in several hundred dollars per month, which obviously was not budgeted for.

Don't understand the point of #5 at all. Whether you pay directly or throught escrow, you have to budget for your taxes. The difference is that if you don't have a mortgage and don't pay your new huge tax bill, it will take the City 15 years to put it up for tax sale. On the other hand, if you have a mortgage and don't pay your taxes (either directly or through escrow) the lender will pay them for you anyway and then file for foreclosure. The house will getr put up for sale much quicker at the Foreclosure Sale.

**sharkey** · 01-21-2013, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by EJW

FWIW, my questions:

1) Will the full set of AVI assessment data be made public?

2) Has the assessment program taken into account the effect of the new proposed tax on home values? In other words, a home with a $300,000 market value and a current annual tax of $1500 will not be worth $300,000 when it is being taxed at $4000 under AVI.

3) Will anything be done to fix the sheriff's office in conjunction with AVI? Already, there is more than half a billion dollars owed to the city that it doesn't collect. With AVI being implemented, we are likely to see many, many more delinquent properties - is there going to be anything done to either force them to pay or to expedite the home auction process? If not, how will that assumed revenue be realized? Through tax increases?

4) Has a minimum tax level been established and if so how was it determined? Previous statements indicated that the minimum amount a home owner would be required to pay is $100 per year... which doesn't cover the cost of trash pickup, let alone other city services consumed. Obviously this isn't fair to other owners. Has it been moved upwards since?

5) Is there any plan to help residents who have real estate taxes escrowed, due to mortgage obligations? When purchasing a home, buyers generally determine how much house they can afford based on monthly payments (which include taxes), but recent buyers could soon be facing an increase in several hundred dollars per month, which obviously was not budgeted for.

Don't understand the point of #5 at all. Whether you pay directly or throught escrow, you have to budget for your taxes. The difference is that if you don't have a mortgage and don't pay your new huge tax bill, it will take the City 15 years to put it up for tax sale. On the other hand, if you have a mortgage and don't pay your taxes (either directly or through escrow) the lender will pay them for you anyway and then file for foreclosure. The house will getr put up for sale much quicker at the Foreclosure Sale.

**Eastcoast** · 01-22-2013, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Spicoli

What's the over/under on the number texts/tweets/facebook posts KJ makes while the meeting is ongoing? I'll put it at 17.5.

Done.

Complete Function Signal Jammers For Cellphone Wifi and GPS

**Eastcoast** · 01-22-2013, 08:42 AM

...

**EJW** · 01-22-2013, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by sharkey

Don't understand the point of #5 at all. Whether you pay directly or throught escrow, you have to budget for your taxes. The difference is that if you don't have a mortgage and don't pay your new huge tax bill, it will take the City 15 years to put it up for tax sale. On the other hand, if you have a mortgage and don't pay your taxes (either directly or through escrow) the lender will pay them for you anyway and then file for foreclosure. The house will getr put up for sale much quicker at the Foreclosure Sale.

The point is that there people who have purchased houses say within the last 10 years (myself included) who made a determination of how much house they could afford based on monthly payment calculations (mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc.). A buyer who determined that they could afford a $300,000 home with $1000 real estate taxes may not be able to afford monthly payments on the same home with taxes of $4000.

You say "you have to budget for your taxes" and I'm assuming that's what most people do, but purchasers can't be blamed for buying a house and not assuming that monthly payments will soon go up by hundreds of dollars. Also, as you mentioned, the implications are more dire for the mortgager because they will actually lose their house.

**El Sharko** · 01-22-2013, 11:40 AM

Lots of people moved here over the past few years who I think would be affected #5 question if you are not counting people in tax abated homes. People and their lenders determine the house they can afford by determining the total monthly payment which includes the taxes. The best information they have available are actual taxes and history.

If they bought recently, that means that they probably haven't seen any significant increase in income since they bought the house. In fact, they may be the ones in the worst position of all since they're homes have not gone up in value and they probably only put 3%-10% down on the house to begin with. This will send some of them underwater on their mortgages and leave many of them unable to afford their homes. If they can no longer afford their homes and they can't sell their homes because of what politicians are doing I feel sorry for them. This could be very bad for our neighborhood.

**EJW** · 01-22-2013, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by El Sharko

If they bought recently, that means that they probably haven't seen any significant increase in income since they bought the house. In fact, they may be the ones in the worst position of all since they're homes have gone up in value and they probably only put 3%-10% down on the house to begin with. This will send some of them underwater on their mortgages and leave many of them unable to afford their homes. If they can no longer afford their homes and they can't sell their homes because of what politicians are doing I feel sorry for them. This could be very bad for our neighborhood.

Agreed. Through no fault of their own recent purchasers could be in serious trouble - this is my point.

An argument could be made that they should have been better informed about the impending introduction of AVI, but even the city didn't know when it was coming and even the most well-informed among us didn't know what the tax rate would be, etc.

**nuosc** · 01-22-2013, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by El Sharko

If they bought recently, that means that they probably haven't seen any significant increase in income since they bought the house.

Oh, it's worse than that, even. Most houses bought in the past 5-10 years have probably declined in value, even with the recent upswing in housing prices. But you can bet that for recently purchased properties your assessment will be closer to what you paid for the house than what its current value actually is (they didn't stop by your house and take a look inside, did they?). So you'll be paying taxes on a much higher value than you really should be. And then, of course, with the higher property tax rates, the value of your house will drop even further---but don't hold your breath hoping they'll update the assessment. So you'll be stuck with a low-value, high-taxed property.