We received a notice our taxes will increase from $1900 to $8900...(b

[benfox]

Wait -- is the issue here the "OP" might have to leave .... G-Ho?

What does "OP" mean?

[Hospitalitygirl]

What does "OP" mean?

Original poster.

[the mule]

Worst comes to worst, you could experiment and see how long your OPA account sits on the delinquency rolls before the City starts to take notice. But if you do that and then decide to sell while your house has a lien slapped on it, most homebuyers will avoid you and then also hate you when they discover the lien in a title search and it can kill a closing faster than anything.

What buyer cares about tax liens on a property? It comes out of the seller's proceeds and usually isn't too big of a deal, just a little extra work for the title agent. Start piling on PGW, water, and other municipal liens and it might start to become unappealing but taxes aren't bad.

[Lolly]

A 200% INCREASE of a $1900 tax bill means that there is an INCREASE of $3900, and therefore a total bill of $5700.

Right, of course. Still, not quite as hard to swallow as $8900.

[boognish]

Nothing better than a good ole fashioned internet meltdown.

[CityofPhilaOPA]

The Office of Property Assessment (OPA) is the City agency charged with establishing real property values which serve as the basis for real estate taxes levied by the City of Philadelphia. On behalf of the OPA, we wanted to let you know that the answers to many frequently asked questions are available here: OPA Website: Help & Information - FAQ Search Service. And we have staff available by phone as well at: 215-686-4334 for General Questions and 215-686-9200 for the Homestead Exemption Hotline.

[CHIOSSO]

OPA how do you feel about pitchforks, torches, tar and feathers?

I'm on a fixed income were do I get another few thousand a year? You stinking rats.

This city will become one big no mans land, people will default on mortgages rents will be sky high and Nutter can play the fiddle on billy penn's hat wile the city burns.

This city will have no one but section 8 and drug dealers. After 275 years you will push my family out of the city.

[torts]

It's "definitely" worth $8.9k/year to live next to drug dealers and section 8 housing.

[supersupper]

It's "definitely" worth $8.9k/year to live next to drug dealers and section 8 housing.

It's definitely worth $8.9K to avoid the users and dullards. (there's certainly more of each).



... my contribution to the meltdown.

[bootsywannabe]

The Office of Property Assessment (OPA) is the City agency charged with establishing real property values which serve as the basis for real estate taxes levied by the City of Philadelphia. On behalf of the OPA, we wanted to let you know that the answers to many frequently asked questions are available here: OPA Website: Help & Information - FAQ Search Service. And we have staff available by phone as well at: 215-686-4334 for General Questions and 215-686-9200 for the Homestead Exemption Hotline.

What's the total annual budget over the last 10 years for your department, including capital purchases (computer systems) and liabilities such as pensions and benefits for existing and retired employees, including those who participated in DROP?

How about we get rid of the OPA instead and save some real money.

[MFC]

Here is the most reasonable approach to implementing AVI I have come across:

Some in gentrified Philadelphia neighborhoods could get tax relief - Philly.com

The notice the OP received is consistent with numerous other assessments which were made in the neighborhood prior to the moratorium. I would suggest long term residents get in touch with Councilman Kenney to see what can be done to ensure that these protections are in place when AVI is implemented.

[raider.adam]

Here is the most reasonable approach to implementing AVI I have come across:

Some in gentrified Philadelphia neighborhoods could get tax relief - Philly.com

The notice the OP received is consistent with numerous other assessments which were made in the neighborhood prior to the moratorium. I would suggest long term residents get in touch with Councilman Kenney to see what can be done to ensure that these protections are in place when AVI is implemented.

I would like to see the numbers, but I am guessing people would be surprised the type of properties that would get protections. I would bet a lot of wealthy people would get protected as well. The reason is, and why we are going through all of this, is because properties weren't routinely and correctly appraised. It is possible you'd see people with million dollar homes in like Society Hill getting a low cap on their property tax.

Keep in mind the story about Vince Fumo's multimillion dollar mansion that had its file "lost" and was significantly underappraised. The legislation would actually have protected him.

Kenney should release the list of properties that would be affected with their before and after valuations and tax liabilities.

[Burholme06]

I would like to see the numbers, but I am guessing people would be surprised the type of properties that would get protections. I would bet a lot of wealthy people would get protected as well. The reason is, and why we are going through all of this, is because properties weren't routinely and correctly appraised. It is possible you'd see people with million dollar homes in like Society Hill getting a low cap on their property tax.

Keep in mind the story about Vince Fumo's multimillion dollar mansion that had its file "lost" and was significantly underappraised. The legislation would actually have protected him.

Kenney should release the list of properties that would be affected with their before and after valuations and tax liabilities.

The other problem is that since there is a revenue target, every time they start exempting what should be taxable value, the rate required to meet that target will need to go up. Between this and the homestead exemption, we may be on our way to over 2%.

[raider.adam]

The other problem is that since there is a revenue target, every time they start exempting what should be taxable value, the rate required to meet that target will need to go up. Between this and the homestead exemption, we may be on our way to over 2%.

Yes and that is worthy to be constantly repeated. The more exemptions the more the pain gets focused onto a smaller group of people (of course politically that is what is easier to deal with).

Also, the additional irony of wanting new people to move into Philly and at the same time tell them they are the ones that are going to hold more of the tax burden. It's actually a feedback loop to de-incentivize people from moving in.

[ShoshTrvls]

I would like to see the numbers, but I am guessing people would be surprised the type of properties that would get protections. I would bet a lot of wealthy people would get protected as well. The reason is, and why we are going through all of this, is because properties weren't routinely and correctly appraised. It is possible you'd see people with million dollar homes in like Society Hill getting a low cap on their property tax.

Keep in mind the story about Vince Fumo's multimillion dollar mansion that had its file "lost" and was significantly underappraised. The legislation would actually have protected him.

Kenney should release the list of properties that would be affected with their before and after valuations and tax liabilities.

I don't understand how this would help people with expiring abatements. Say you bought your house ten years ago, and at the time the improvements were valued at $300,000 but you paid close to nothing nothing in taxes because of the abatement. This doesn't help you at all -- what it actually says is that you can be taxed up to $900,000 (I'm ignoring the land value, btw).

If this is saying that when you bought your $300,000 house, the improvements (before rehab) were valued at a $40,000 shell, then the most that house will ever be valued at is $120,000, even if you actually paid $400,000 for it at the time -- I can't see how anyone could possibly support such legislation, as it essentially makes the abatements permanent. Meanwhile, someone like me, who bought my house 20 years ago for $120,000 could pay up to $360,000. I don't mind paying taxes on the true value of my home (which probably is about $360,000), but not when people who bought and paid far more expensive houses are not doing the same.

[Lolly]

I don't understand how this would help people with expiring abatements. Say you bought your house ten years ago, and at the time the improvements were valued at $300,000 but you paid close to nothing nothing in taxes because of the abatement. This doesn't help you at all -- what it actually says is that you can be taxed up to $900,000 (I'm ignoring the land value, btw).

If this is saying that when you bought your $300,000 house, the improvements (before rehab) were valued at a $40,000 shell, then the most that house will ever be valued at is $120,000, even if you actually paid $400,000 for it at the time -- I can't see how anyone could possibly support such legislation, as it essentially makes the abatements permanent. Meanwhile, someone like me, who bought my house 20 years ago for $120,000 could pay up to $360,000. I don't mind paying taxes on the true value of my home (which probably is about $360,000), but not when people who bought and paid far more expensive houses are not doing the same.

Wish I was lucky enough to buy that $300K house 10 years ago that's now worth $900K! LOL

[ShoshTrvls]

Wish I was lucky enough to buy that $300K house 10 years ago that's now worth $900K! LOL

I'm not saying there is such a home (actually, there are probably quite a few in QV) -- what I'm saying is that if the proposed legislation caps your AVI at three times the value of the house you bought (e.g. a $300,000 house that has been tax abated), the legislation does not really help people like you and the OP who are terrified of an $8000 tax bill on your properties.

OTOH, if the legislation is meant to keep taxes at three times the pre-improved value, that really just makes the abatements (which benefitted those who could afford $300,000 and $400,000 homes) permanent at the expense of people who could not afford such homes. So, I'd be paying 3x the property taxes of someone with a much newer, nicer home -- someone who has already gotten 10 years of, essentially, tax-free use of that home. Really, there's no other way to see the legislation other than as a gift to the wealthier city residents at the expense of everyone else.

[szekely]

Maybe this explains it? Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter Warns Homeowners Of Confusion Over Tax Bills « CBS Philly

Thank you for that article with the PDF. I'm only on page one of this thread, but I have looked at the PDF's calendar. I have the homestead exemption application that is due mid-November, but I received no other notice in September, so it looks like I'm safe for now. (We did get screwed soon after moving to the city about a decade ago. Our RE taxes more than doubled).

[Lolly]

I'm not saying there is such a home (actually, there are probably quite a few in QV) -- what I'm saying is that if the proposed legislation caps your AVI at three times the value of the house you bought (e.g. a $300,000 house that has been tax abated), the legislation does not really help people like you and the OP who are terrified of an $8000 tax bill on your properties.

Well the legislation doesn't help folks in my particular situation for several reasons. For one thing I didn't buy 10+ years ago, so it just plain doesn't apply. (The OP here is another story of course.) My house is also worth only marginally more now than what we paid in 2006. A cap is a cap, but I doubt this legislation could place a triple-value on a property that's worth less than that.

OTOH, if the legislation is meant to keep taxes at three times the pre-improved value, that really just makes the abatements (which benefitted those who could afford $300,000 and $400,000 homes) permanent at the expense of people who could not afford such homes. So, I'd be paying 3x the property taxes of someone with a much newer, nicer home -- someone who has already gotten 10 years of, essentially, tax-free use of that home. Really, there's no other way to see the legislation other than as a gift to the wealthier city residents at the expense of everyone else.

Yes perhaps but you were (theoretically) not willing/able to buy the home in the existing decimated area at the time, when the abatement was on offer. There is something to be said for being in the right place at the right time, I think. That said, perhaps some means-testing could be thrown into the mix too, so that (for example) in the case of the OP here, their family would not be driven out of a neighborhood they waited a long time, and worked hard to help improve. And in the end, the abatement is still not "permanent" because all bets are off when the property sells.

[bootsywannabe]

It's an unrealized gain until you actually find a buyer who will pay you that amount for your house. Until then it is a fantasy number arrived at by unlicensed appraisers that we as taxpayers pay for, including their benefits and pensions. We should use what we pay for our homes as our cost basis, plus any improvements. The tax rate should be 1%, and only very minor increases should be allowed each year. Very minor. It's an immoral system currently, and will get worse with the AVI.

Let the Patronage Nest Zombies eat each other and die rather than digging into our pocketbooks again, for the third time in as many years.