An Interesting Map - take a look at all the deadbeats

[6enny]

The rule is:

Number of Liens > 0 + Total dollar amount of liens applied >= 2,500 + none of the liens can be in "AGRE" status, which indicates a payment agreement.

Does the owner have the option to pay back taxes and retain the property after getting wind that you're trying to bring it up for Sheriff sale?

[seand]

Does the owner have the option to pay back taxes and retain the property after getting wind that you're trying to bring it up for Sheriff sale?

Yes. But only if they come up with all of it.

[MariusPontmercy]

Yes. But only if they come up with all of it.

I thought they only had to enter into a payment plan? Then they can make one payment, stop paying, and wait another five years for the process to repeat.

[seand]

I thought they only had to enter into a payment plan? Then they can make one payment, stop paying, and wait another five years for the process to repeat.

No once it goes to Sherrif's Sale you have to pay it all or lose it. That's the point. The payment plan is for before it goes to sale, as I understand it. And you can only default 3 times on the payment plan before you are barred from doing it again permanantly. They are really crappy about getting things to sales but once its there the policy is not that bad.

[GraduateFamily]

There are so many ways to delay a sheriff's sale without even paying the full amount due it isn't even funny. So, the short answer to your question is, yes, the owner can stop a sale right up until the day of sale and based on their sob story and political connections, they can stop a sale for significantly less than the full amount due. Once the sale is stopped, there is no telling when it will come up for sale again even if the balance is not paid. The City does not have the technology to track compliance with agreements so the owner can get away without making any payments for months until the City realizes the agreement has been breached. But then, the sale process has to begin all over again (a nine month process, akin to giving birth.) And then, when the second sale date comes up, the owner can enter into another agreement and the cycle repeats itself...This can, and does, happen all the time.

The sheriff's sale would only be a deterrent if properties were actually at risk of sale. I've seen mentioned here before how "hundreds" of properties go up for sale every month. A large number of those properties are the same properties being offered over and over again for sale since after thirty years or so of not paying taxes, the debt owed outweighs the home's market value. A number of properties are also "withdrawn" from the sale the day of sale due to the above scenario. There are actually very few new properties that make it to sale every month.

I think what really ticks people off about AVI, myself included, is that the City has bent over backwards to change the assessment system, but made only token efforts to fix the underlying problems that cost the City hundreds of millions...if the same energy poured into AVI had been spent fixing enforcement and collection of taxes, we'd be in an entirely different fiscal situation.

I'd be very, very cautious about putting up $800 to bring a property to sale. The City is not in the business of giving money back. Nine months is optimistic for a property to come to sale but in reality, your money could be tied up for years...and once you hand those funds over, getting them back will similarly take months and an inordinate amount of time waiting in lines, etc. Only put the money up if you are willing to risk never seeing it again.

[GraduateFamily]

In the same way you only have to have 10% of the sale price on hand to "win" at a sale, you can also enter into an agreement with Law right up until the day of sale. And, trust me, there is no written policy about the three agreements. It is guidance, and Law is guided into any number of agreements all the time depending on the pressure brought to bear.

I could never understand why Cheri Honkala was so worked up about foreclosures in the City. The only way to lose a house in the City is to die or just walk away.

[seand]

Only the District Councilperson has the ability to stop the sale cold. And yes that sucks. Bring it up with your district councilperson.

When I was in the payment plan, I got a notice for being a week and a half late. I doubt what you say about no tracking compliance is 100% accurate.

You exagerate again on the number of repeat properties.

Real issues all of them but not that extreme. Once it goes to sale, its a fair process but the problem is so many delays before it goes to sale.

I'd agree the $800 may be years in resurfacing, depending on the situation. Arctic Splash? Sharkey?

[seand]

I could never understand why Cheri Honkala was so worked up about foreclosures in the City. The only way to lose a house in the City is to die or just walk away.

Cheri Honkala is a nut.

You make it sound like there are never sales where the old owners are fighting to keep it. I've seen 4 myself. I bought one.

[seand]

I thought they only had to enter into a payment plan? Then they can make one payment, stop paying, and wait another five years for the process to repeat.

Don't believe everything you read from you know who. Simply not true.

[GraduateFamily]

Sorry, Sean. I disagree. I've been on both sides of the sale. Watching the sausage made is not pretty.

I'll throw another one out for you: as you know, from having gone to sales, you only have to put 10% down. At the time you put the 10% down, "policy" is to present a tax compliance certificate. How often do you think that happens?

Secondly, you are supposed to put the balance down in thirty days or forfeit your deposit and the registered second bidder has the opportunity to put down the 10%. Guess how often that happens?

No taxes are paid while the property sits in title limbo...if the speculator can not sell the property outright, he can always sell the option (his equitable interest) to someone else...who can similarly not settle and not pay taxes.

Marius, likewise, don't believe everything you read from you know who. Simply not true.

[seand]

Sales happen. Its an outright lie to say they don't.
I have seen craptastic slumlords lose their property after swearing up and down they will get them back. The building I'm specifically thinking of is being rehabbed as we speak. Once it goes up for sale, there is resolution where someone who will pay taxes ends up in possession most of the time. The problem is the many, many delays before it goes to sale. I'd agree a very simple rule where noone who currently owes property taxes can bid at auctions would help a lot.

[ArcticSplash]

Only the District Councilperson has the ability to stop the sale cold. And yes that sucks. Bring it up with your district councilperson.

When I was in the payment plan, I got a notice for being a week and a half late. I doubt what you say about no tracking compliance is 100% accurate.

You exagerate again on the number of repeat properties.

Real issues all of them but not that extreme. Once it goes to sale, its a fair process but the problem is so many delays before it goes to sale.

I'd agree the $800 may be years in resurfacing, depending on the situation. Arctic Splash? Sharkey?

There's differing information on this.

Where this number comes from: This is the minimum possible bid at a Sheriff's Sale. For the RETU, they'll accept the statement "I want to buy that property" at face value, cash your check, and then proceed with the title search and filing the CP paperwork.

Linebarger needs a little more convincing before they'll start processing--mostly finding the correct employee to talk to. I've dealt with 3 so far and 1 assured me they would bump a house and I wouldn't need to pay a cent.


GRB just won't take public input at all (or public cash). They only want to talk to you if you dupe them into believing you're gonna be there at that auction. If you're a known developer they'll start the process and get it done quicker. The way I handle them is to point out the location is close to market rate activity.


For instance, GRB has been sitting with 2044 FLETCHER STREET on their hands. It's been a drug house. It sits next door is another house which has been a drug house in the past and it was a judicial seizure a couple years ago and taken by the Public Nuisance Task Force and then sold off. There is a market rate house, newly done, directly across the street. As you can see the block is a bit "gappy". NTI knock-downs. But these two houses on this block represent the only blight that is left on that block keeping the block down. I've spoken with 3 residents so far and they all point to the dealers that hang outside 2044 as one of the few remaining vestiges of blight hanging over them.

Get rid of them, and you've gotten rid of most of the problems in a 1-block radius.


Makes sense to me, and there's room to put up a series of homes if the 2 stories can be knocked down. 2044 happens to have some cute tile work in it that's original and some other artifacts that can be saved. Dunno if the house is worth saving or just knocking it down. We're not too sure what's going on with the house adjacent. Secondaries to the drug dealers that hang in their car in front of the house have been seen going in and out of both.


It's been a few months since I checked up on it; and so far I don't see activity in Common Pleas court, so I'm assuming GRB is doing nothing. *sigh* That's what I love about this crap--you have to follow up and whine and moan and bitch repeatedly non-stop and you can't let it go or the issues will get dropped and ignored.

[seand]

The only way to lose a house in the City is to die or just walk away.

The thing about this statement is if the person stating it was not being disengenuous, if they really believed it, they would not give a hoot about assessments. They would simply shut up and stop paying. The fact that you are writing it at all proves its wild exageration.

[newphil]

What city agency do you pay to begin the process?

Artic are you available to hire to assist in the process?

[newphil]

Can someone help me understand this difference?

Brenda Armstrong 3812 W Girard Ave

15 Years Delinquent
Owes -$2762.88

City Real Estate Tax records confirm

ZBA Bot confirms that it is eligible for Sale, but same page also states that it was sold in 2011 for $800. Did Brenda sell it or buy it? If she sold it why is she still named owner. If she bought it in 2011 she can't be 15 years behind,. What gives?

[ArcticSplash]

Can someone help me understand this difference?

Brenda Armstrong 3812 W Girard Ave

15 Years Delinquent
Owes -$2762.88

City Real Estate Tax records confirm

ZBA Bot confirms that it is eligible for Sale, but same page also states that it was sold in 2011 for $800. Did Brenda sell it or buy it? If she sold it why is she still named owner. If she bought it in 2011 she can't be 15 years behind,. What gives?

Looks like she picked up all those small liens when she got this property. Her assessment also went up slightly when she got it. Linebarger holds all the liens.

[ArcticSplash]

What city agency do you pay to begin the process?

Artic are you available to hire to assist in the process?

I cannot be hired because I don't have an active BPL. I'd call your council rep's office to express interest with a privately owned DQ property.

[newphil]

Ok Thanks. To force a sale do I call the agencies that hold the liens? Or is there a city department?

[Hospitalitygirl]

I know.

I say we don't pay any increases in taxes...perhaps even stop paying our taxes, until the collection rate from deadbeats is vastly improved.

I for one am tired of paying out the wazoo; having to pay more on a regular basis, and then getting less and less for it.

I knew the tax manifesto in another thread sounded familiar...

It's time to seriously consider this. There is low-hanging fruit to be grabbed before ridiculous rates for millage get such serious consideration. Not to mention the Use & Occupancy tax that Kenney wants to add.

[ArcticSplash]

Ok Thanks. To force a sale do I call the agencies that hold the liens? Or is there a city department?

If it's RETU (nothing in the status column or RETU), you can hand over the check at the MSB building. Just tell the clerk "I want to buy this property please take it to Sheriff's Sale." You go to the MSB building, take the elevator to the basement level, follow the sign that says TAXES ->>, stand in line, make sure you take your printout from OPA with you (or Revenue), and tell the clerk at the desk that you want to talk to an RETU manager or supervisor who can help you PURCHASE this property. She'll hand you off. You must pay them with a cashier's check.

Linebarger you need to call their main number and tell the secretary/assistant who picks up that you want to PURCHASE/BUY a property that they have in collections. If you say "Sheriff's Sale" they'll get it wrong and send you to Taxpayer Assistance (this is for the deadbeats to make payment arrangements, you don't want this).

GRB Law does not accept deposits and public requests. HOWEVER... there's a way around this--but you need to contact your Council staffers first BEFORE you call up GRB. With GRB there's a staff attorney that is here in Philadelphia working the tax foreclosure cases who gets direct requests from Council to do pushes whenever they're trying to assemble parcels together. I've talked to a couple of folks there and they are both helpful, but I'm still waiting to see if my requests are actually getting to Sheriff's Sale. None of the properties I have requested so far with GRB have made it to the finish line yet.