23rd St Curb Cut Construction Idiocy

[Jayfar]

The construction of ADA-mandated new style corner curb cuts has turned South 23rd from Bainbridge to Christian into an extreme hazard zone since last week. Not only have they broken up the sidewalk in preparation for construction of the curb ramps, to replace the perfectly useable existing ones, and barricaded each corner with barrels and plastic fencing, but they've done it on both sides of 23rd simultaneously. As a result, 23rd from Bainbridge to Christian requires pedestrians to walk in the street for most of that stretch. What were they thinking?!?

EDIT:

Called 311. They gave me a tracking # and will forward complaint to Streets Dept.

Service Request #2223386
Department Streets Department
Type of Inquiry Complaint (Streets)
Status Pending

[boognish]

43rd @ Spruce is the same. Of course, it's the main crossing for an elementary school and day care so scores of children and folks with strollers have to cut across traffic. The cones and barricades have been there for days and days.

[macdaire]

I have heard rumors that said curbs were infact ADA compliant.They just needed the bumpy nodules to make them 100% compliant. However sub contracting is good business I guess.

[mixiboi]

Incorrect, the ADA compliant rules changed, and its not just the bumpy nodules.

And yeah, it sucks that they are doing multiple corners, but they been doing that all over the city already, and they only have x amount of time to get it done(its not cheap having cement trucks come out multiple times)


If you want to complain to someone , you might want to aim it at the groups that are doing all this.

Disabled In Action: DIA Activist Newsletter

[macdaire]

Not complaining- just had heard that and I am mighty glad it is incorrect.

[mixiboi]

I was talking to Jayfar about complaining, as the City just wants to get this over with. They can't pave streets untill they put those new ADA curbs in on those streets.

It just a mess..

[luchobucho]

I have heard rumors that said curbs were infact ADA compliant.They just needed the bumpy nodules to make them 100% compliant. However sub contracting is good business I guess.

Not to nitpick, but compliance is binary, you're either compliant or you're not.....there is no in-between.

And I don't think the DWS can just be tacked on, I think they need to be reccessed in the surface to not create a trippipng hazzard.

I just sat through a really long discussion about how the city is trying to handle ADA ramps yesterday and its really frightening the amount of work that ADA litigation is forcing the city into.

[mixiboi]

Not to nitpick, but compliance is binary, you're either compliant or you're not.....there is no in-between.

And I don't think the DWS can just be tacked on, I think they need to be recessed in the surface to not create a tripping hazzard.

I just sat through a really long discussion about how the city is trying to handle ADA ramps yesterday and its really frightening the amount of work that ADA litigation is forcing the city into.

They can be tacked on, They been doing it in Center City where the slope of the sidewalk was more then compliant with the new ADA rules, but they did have to cut out a hole big enough in the walkways to make sure they didn't becoming tripping or loose. dover the years.


But those are few in between, and not the brick ramps which they have to rebuild to the new ADA guidelines.

[Mustard]

I hope this isn't going to be another on of these projects that they start the work, leave it a mess for months, then come back and finish it 3 months later... Like the street paving.

[mixiboi]

So far that hasn't happen. Unlike the street paving they don't get the cement in bulk like they do the asphalt, so they only have to do that street versus all the streets(like with the paving; plus the weather isn't as much of an issue when it comes to dealing with cement)

[Mustard]

It "looks" really expensive based on the all the heavy equipment and sheer volume of concrete being removed.

It would be interesting to get a number on it but lets just say for the sake of argument it was 200K.. That would be enough to plants trees on every block in the neighborhood, hire a few folks to just walk around 7 days a week cleaning up trash for a year, add security cameras to high crime intersections, or maybe hire a few extra teachers for a year at the local elementary school..

[mixiboi]

This is what happens when you have a good lobbying group. I can't be mad at them, they didn't just walk into(Pun intended) getting their way, they earned it.

[Sharkfood]

Has anyone considered whether the bumpy nodules will turn cancerous?

[ACretin]

This is what happens when you have a good lobbying group. I can't be mad at them, they didn't just walk into(Pun intended) getting their way, they earned it.

It may be cheaper to do both at the same time. That said, it sounds like another unfunded Federal Mandate. 200K sounds low. Remember, we have to pay 3X the going rate of labor on these projects because they are all PLA projects. We shouldn't use that money to better our community, because union members from nj need to buy brand new heavy-duty trucks this year. And next year. And the year after that. And they need to use that money via dues to lobby for more money, and to help support Occupy and the Tort Bar.

[Jayfar]

Just to clarify, my main issue is with the fact that they are doing both sides of the street simultaneously, rather than completing one side and then the other, leaving no safe path whatsoever for pedestrians to traverse from Bainbridge all the way to Christian St. With cars parked on both sides, that leaves only the single traffic lane in the middle of the street to be shared by pedestrians and vehicular traffic. I'm nimble and skinny enough to jump into the narrow space between parked cars to escape approaching cars, trucks and buses, but for older folks and anyone else who can't jump so fast, this is an extremely dangerous situation.

[ACretin]

Just to clarify, my main issue is with the fact that they are doing both sides of the street simultaneously, rather than completing one side and then the other, leaving no safe path whatsoever for pedestrians to traverse from Bainbridge all the way to Christian St. With cars parked on both sides, that leaves only the single traffic lane in the middle of the street to be shared by pedestrians and vehicular traffic. I'm nimble and skinny enough to jump into the narrow space between parked cars to escape approaching cars, trucks and buses, but for older folks and anyone else who can't jump so fast, this is an extremely dangerous situation.

Just to clairfy, it would likely take twice as long and cost twice as much to do each curb separately.

[Jayfar]

Just to clairfy, it would likely take twice as long and cost twice as much to do each curb separately.

I call bull****. Any additional costs would only be incremental. And a successful wrongful death lawsuit from the estate of a dead pedestrian could at least double the cost of the reconstruction of that half dozen or so blocks.

[the mule]

I call bull****. Any additional costs would only be incremental. And a successful wrongful death lawsuit from the estate of a dead pedestrian could at least double the cost of the reconstruction of that half dozen or so blocks.

It's might not twice as much, but it's still significant. Concrete materials costs are low, but the bulk of the cost here is the labor and mobilization (including delivery). If you only do two corners of an intersection at a time, you've got to mobilize at that intersection twice, once for the first half, and a second time after it's complete to do the other half. So not only did your mobilization costs increase, but now the project is taking twice as long when there's a time crunch for getting in compliance. Why not just double the number of crews? Well now you have to increase deliveries or you have laborers being paid to sit around and wait for the concrete to be delivered over a greater distance.

[Jayfar]

It's might not twice as much, but it's still significant. Concrete materials costs are low, but the bulk of the cost here is the labor and mobilization (including delivery). If you only do two corners of an intersection at a time, you've got to mobilize at that intersection twice, once for the first half, and a second time after it's complete to do the other half. So not only did your mobilization costs increase, but now the project is taking twice as long when there's a time crunch for getting in compliance. Why not just double the number of crews? Well now you have to increase deliveries or you have laborers being paid to sit around and wait for the concrete to be delivered over a greater distance.

The logistics aren't so daunting. You just simultaneously work one side of the next numbered street over, so you don't need to shift your crews and equipment any great distance. Regardless, the safety issues presented by the current method are just absolutely overwhelming. Maybe you'd have to take a walk along there to realize how bad it is.

EDIT:
And along much of this stretch the cars are parked so closely that you can't just easily re-enter the sidewalk after you get past the corner.

[boognish]

My complaint: there was no reason to dig out eight curbs, then only fill in two leaving the two most important curbs, those which provide safe access to children and their families, to sit blockaded for over a week.

I don't mind the work, but a little common sense would have gone a long way in our neighborhood. I understand that it takes time to dig them out and fill them in. I get it, but they should have filled in the most highly traffic'd corners (in this case, those on Spruce) first.

YMMV.