1612-16 South Street

[Gladys]

The story so far: After some rather long and protracted discussions with the Rodman Street neighbors that continued right up to the night of the hearing, the Center City Residents' Association gave its blessing to the project. Here's our story on that.

The Zoning Board of Adjustment has also approved the variances and groundbreaking should be in about six weeks. I'll have an update on the site soon.

The houses will be large and luxurious.

but the question is will they be made with particle board. I know its the current industry standard but just irks me. I've seen a few people actually using plywood but very few. If i had the money to buy a luxury home you can rest assured it wouldn't be built out of that stuff. No before mr gingivitis get's his teeth into me i'm no construction expert, just grew up around people who did it for a living. So this is all my opinion. While riding in a car down broad when they were building 777 a friend remarked, no wonder it's a non smoking building, look what it's made of. So many of these new constructions going up, especially the housing don't look like they will last very long at all.

The most sturdy thing i've seen constructed in a while is the new cvs on south and 22nd... I'm sure the inside walls will be as strong as cubicles but the outside looks like it could be a bunker.

[MarketStEl]

but the question is will they be made with particle board. I know its the current industry standard but just irks me. I've seen a few people actually using plywood but very few. If i had the money to buy a luxury home you can rest assured it wouldn't be built out of that stuff. No before mr gingivitis get's his teeth into me i'm no construction expert, just grew up around people who did it for a living. So this is all my opinion. While riding in a car down broad when they were building 777 a friend remarked, no wonder it's a non smoking building, look what it's made of. So many of these new constructions going up, especially the housing don't look like they will last very long at all.

The most sturdy thing i've seen constructed in a while is the new cvs on south and 22nd... I'm sure the inside walls will be as strong as cubicles but the outside looks like it could be a bunker.

I'm about to reveal my old fogy side here. Before continuing to read, please note the disclaimer in my .sig.

It's my impression that since at least the 1970s, and maybe earlier, even expensive buildings look cheap: instant framing, tacked-on decorations (I much prefer starkly modern residential buildings for this reason), insubstantial materials beneath all those spiffy surfaces on the outside and the inside.

And I'm sure Ian Anderson would gag: Thick as a brick? How thick are those bricks anyway?

Yet this stuff fetches premium prices on the market. And as long as it continues to, where's the impetus for higher standards?

That said, craftsmanship is TRULY expensive. You can't build for mass affluence using those methods.

[Gladys]

fables...

[londoner]

fables...

You're right, I bet 777 wouldn't survive a hurricane....

Wait, it already did! Give it a rest on 777 already, you point out that it (in your admittedly unexpertise opinion) looked cheaply built every other week on this blog as if you're still making an original point! The reality is 777 is the only positive thing to land on broad south of south in decades bringing retail and residents to a relatively desolate strip.

[dr_gingivitis]

I'm not quite sure why one engineered wood (OSB) would be more flammable than another (Plywood)?

777 is smoke free because it's LEED Certified.

[Gladys]

sorry it's an ugly ass building... rivaling only symphony house.

and the hurricane missed us remember.

[MarketStEl]

Symphony House was an architectural botch, true. Dranoff would have done better to let that building be the pure Modernist pile it wanted to be, as Philadelphia Theatre Company did with its portion of the project.

But I don't quite share your opinion of 777 South Broad. I think it's actually kinda cute in a weird South Philly-meets-South Beach sort of way. Yes, it WANTS to be pink stucco, but it works as brown brick too.

And it sure as hell beats both the vacant lot that Universal Companies failed to develop for years on that site and the vandalized nursing home that had been there for about a decade before that.

Of couse, none of this would have happened had the MLK Plaza towers not been dynamited first. (Well, the nursing home was so badly vandalized because those towers were still standing at the time.)

[the mule]

but the question is will they be made with particle board. I know its the current industry standard but just irks me. I've seen a few people actually using plywood but very few. If i had the money to buy a luxury home you can rest assured it wouldn't be built out of that stuff. No before mr gingivitis get's his teeth into me i'm no construction expert, just grew up around people who did it for a living. So this is all my opinion. While riding in a car down broad when they were building 777 a friend remarked, no wonder it's a non smoking building, look what it's made of. So many of these new constructions going up, especially the housing don't look like they will last very long at all.

The most sturdy thing i've seen constructed in a while is the new cvs on south and 22nd... I'm sure the inside walls will be as strong as cubicles but the outside looks like it could be a bunker.

Just want to point out that nobody uses particle board (sawdust and glue) as exterior sheathing; you're thinking of OSB (oriented strand board, or wood strips/flakes and glue). You can get OSB that holds nails as well as plywood and with shear strength exceeding that of plywood. OSB definitely is not as resistant to moisture as plywood, but if the water control layer is properly designed and the cladding is back vented it is a perfectly acceptable and more economical alternative. The problem is that a lot of builders are still getting water management details wrong, especially with stucco & OSB, so those walls get wet, turn to mush, and create all kinds of moldy nightmares.

There is only one plywood plant left in the US, so its days in residential construction are numbered. There will be a day when we only use OSB on corners for shear strength and sheath the rest of the building with foam.

Europeans can't believe that we build houses out of wood in the first place, but that's the only way we can satisfy our homeownership culture and demand for pretty interior finishes at low prices.

[londoner]

Any new updates on this? Everytime i walk to Pumpkin market to get my breakfast burrito i'm reminded by how much this street/block will be transformed once these hulking, intrusive eyesores get developed.

Speaking of eyesores, what's the deal with 1701 South Street? The zoning notices were first put up over a year ago, correct?

[Gladys]

Just want to point out that nobody uses particle board (sawdust and glue) as exterior sheathing; you're thinking of OSB (oriented strand board, or wood strips/flakes and glue). You can get OSB that holds nails as well as plywood and with shear strength exceeding that of plywood. OSB definitely is not as resistant to moisture as plywood, but if the water control layer is properly designed and the cladding is back vented it is a perfectly acceptable and more economical alternative. The problem is that a lot of builders are still getting water management details wrong, especially with stucco & OSB, so those walls get wet, turn to mush, and create all kinds of moldy nightmares.

There is only one plywood plant left in the US, so its days in residential construction are numbered. There will be a day when we only use OSB on corners for shear strength and sheath the rest of the building with foam.

Europeans can't believe that we build houses out of wood in the first place, but that's the only way we can satisfy our homeownership culture and demand for pretty interior finishes at low prices.

Thanks for explaining it to me in a way i can understand. Appreciated.

[the mule]

Thanks for explaining it to me in a way i can understand. Appreciated.

My pleasure. And you are right, plywood with commercial grade Tyvek would probably be the best choice from a moisture durability standpoint if you're going to spend a ton of money on a new house, but it's rarely done unfortunately.

In any case it won't be long before we're all using structurally insulated sheathing, which is just a thin layer of OSB with rigid foam insulation on the outside.

[NorthPhilly]

Were these buildings given a variance on the acceptable height? Are they going to tower above the rest of the street?

[Gladys]

My pleasure. And you are right, plywood with commercial grade Tyvek would probably be the best choice from a moisture durability standpoint if you're going to spend a ton of money on a new house, but it's rarely done unfortunately.

In any case it won't be long before we're all using structurally insulated sheathing, which is just a thin layer of OSB with rigid foam insulation on the outside.

ok is that in place of the old yellow insulation?

Personally I look forward to solar panels being common.. I hate peco.

[MarketStEl]

Europeans can't believe that we build houses out of wood in the first place, but that's the only way we can satisfy our homeownership culture and demand for pretty interior finishes at low prices.

What do Europeans use for framing?

[luchobucho]

What do Europeans use for framing?

In southern europe buildings have cast-in-place concrete or masonry walls. Walls are Skimmed with plaster and/or stucco (real stucco). Floors are either elevated slab or framed and anchored in the walls with appropriate support columns as necessary. Not terribly different than our heavy commercial construction.
Buildings cost a ton, but last forever.
Not everyone can afford to be a home owner though wchich is so against our American principals <sarcasm>.

[NorthPhilly]

So any updates on this? When does construction start? Where the final plans approved?

[bootsywannabe]

Looks great over there. Lot's o' progress Ori. Bet the neighbors are real glad they approved your variances now.

[ofeibush]

Excuse me? I am fairly accessible. (215)735-7368 ext. 4, ori@ocfrealty.com, 2054 South Street......

My project was opposed by a neighbor. That issue was settled but certain changes required us to go before the Board of Building Standards. I did that in late December and I am waiting on a decision.

I anticipate ground breaking on March 1st.

And yes, I think the neighbors are thrilled they approved my variances.

[bootsywannabe]

Great thanks for the update

[Ecurtep]

Glad to hear the project is getting started.