Greater St. Matthews church sold

**devilspocket** · 06-02-2012, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

Not sure what you're basing this on.

I think he left off the sarcasm tag.

**thoth** · 06-02-2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by devilspocket

I think he left off the sarcasm tag.

whoopsie, that's what happens when you skim through threads.

**Gladys** · 06-02-2012, 10:08 PM

yup - there's no tone in email with out the dreaded emoticons but that one was dripping with sarcasm.

**Lupo** · 06-04-2012, 09:48 AM

Yesterday, as I walked over cracked pavement to avoid the huge sign & garbage pail blocking the sidewalk on 22nd St across the street from the Apostolic Church where, as usual, cars were parked at the bus stop, it occurred to me that Ms. Gross doesn't seem to have a problem with the number of cars that flood our streets every weekend with out of state, non-taxpaying congregants of this & other local churches. They often park illegally, knowing they will not be ticketed, & occupy parking spaces that could be used by local residents, if not the hordes of people descending on GradHo as Ms. Gross imagines. Apparently it is fine for the parking spaces Ms Gross so worries about to be used by people who contribute absolutely nothing to the local economy as long as they are (politically connected) churchgoers. One has to wonder whose interests Ms. Gross really serves - aside from her own.

**Grad hospital** · 06-04-2012, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Lupo

Yesterday, as I walked over cracked pavement to avoid the huge sign & garbage pail blocking the sidewalk on 22nd St across the street from the Apostolic Church where, as usual, cars were parked at the bus stop, it occurred to me that Ms. Gross doesn't seem to have a problem with the number of cars that flood our streets every weekend with out of state, non-taxpaying congregants of this & other local churches. They often park illegally, knowing they will not be ticketed, & occupy parking spaces that could be used by local residents, if not the hordes of people descending on GradHo as Ms. Gross imagines. Apparently it is fine for the parking spaces Ms Gross so worries about to be used by people who contribute absolutely nothing to the local economy as long as they are (politically connected) churchgoers. One has to wonder whose interests Ms. Gross really serves - aside from her own.

I wouldn't go there. The church and it's members does a ton for community. Summer school, soup kitchens, community meetings, after school programs, food drives, all kinds of classes for seniors, voting. The list goes on an on.

What's pathetic is these "out of staters" do more for our community than the a lot of people who live in it and have nothing better do then bitch about parking... which at times I am included. Unfortunately whatever will replace them with offer basically zilch in terms of any service to the neighborhood which is why the bar should set much higher on the parking issue.

Frankly, if a bunch of folks want to come into our neighborhood spend their own time and money doing all the things they are doing now, they can parking their cars in my living room if they chose.

**ahbinpa** · 06-05-2012, 07:59 AM

Nice article on both the destruction and salvation of church buildings on PlanPhilly. Leads off with GSM.
http://planphilly.com/graduate-hospi...es-under-siege

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**topogigio** · 06-05-2012, 09:06 AM

Why is Gail Gross so consistently against local development?

She lists herself as an interior designer, yet a quick search of the internet does not show her as having any kind of legitimate design business. Could it be that she can deduct part of her house on her income taxes by declaring this so called business is being run from her home? Reportedly, Gail works in retail and would have no reason to deduct part of her house on her taxes.

She pays far less in annual real estate taxes than anyone in her immediate area.

Records show that she was gifted her house by a family member for the sale price of one dollar.

The common element here seems to be real estate taxes. Could Gail be more fearful of of an increase in her taxes than she is about the loss of a parking space? Of course, no one wants their taxes to increase but attempting to stop appropriate development is not the way to solve this problem.

Gail also does a great deal of volunteer work for the Democratic Party which, as we know, does run Philadelphia. Of course, it's extremely important for the party to keep their constituents and Gail seems to work hard to maintain the present power base by opposing development that may cause a shift in the demographics.

**Lolly** · 06-05-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by topogigio

the contractor asked for a continuance because he needed to work with his architect. The next hearing is scheduled for july 11, at 2:00pm and must be heard.

Anyone who supports this project must attend the upcoming meeting.

Gail is determined to stop this development at any cost to the neighborhood and brought along several of her deluded supporters who have been won over by her ridiculous rhetoric.

There are parking spaces available closer to your "park" block--you just do not want to walk and feel that it is your civil right to have a space available in front of your house or on the next street.

NOTE THIS CORRECTION - AS POSTED ON THE SOUTHWEST CENTER CITY FACEBOOK PAGE:
The rescheduled hearing will be on JUNE 20TH, not July 11th. 2pm.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/64575388202/

**Lupo** · 06-18-2012, 09:33 AM

The arrogance of Ms. Gross to purport to be the voice of the community! She's a legend in her own mind. Her frequent use of "we," "us," & "most of us" in the screed pushed through my mailbox on Sunday is supposed to make us think she is the "voice" of a broad-based community movement. Nothing could be farther from the truth. (I find it ironic that Ms. Gross encourages us to "speak up" & "share your voice" yet does not identify herself.) She leads a small group of self-interested people who simply cannot adjust to the contingencies of contemporary urban life.

This is not about the availability of parking spaces in the neighborhood. It is about convenient parking spaces, spaces in front of people's houses - that's why they invented the suburbs. They don't want to walk a block or two or sometimes three to their cars. They think that they are entitled to convenient free parking. None of us are. That is one of the prices we pay to live in a city where we can walk, bicycle, use a scooter, take a taxi or use public transportation to get around the city. If the future tenants of St. Matthew's want on-site parking & it is not available, they simply will not move there. Others will, people who understand and deal with the conditions of living in a city.

And it will certainly cut down the air pollution caused by privately-owned cars, a matter which seems of no importance to Ms. Gross, although most of the young mothers and elderly in the neighborhood would certainly appreciate fewer cars on the streets. What about our quality of life, those of us who don't own cars but whose every breath is affected by those who do? We will not be "suffocated" by the lack of parking, as the writer alleges, but by the toxic air that more cars will bring.

I am also surprised by the support of local merchants for this deluded cause. A parking space does not buy carpets, eat in a restaurant, buy crafts or bring in dry cleaning. People do. My worst fear is that the developer will walk away from the project or tear the church down & the tower that has been the gateway to our neighborhood for 100 years will no longer be there because a small group of self-interested people who pretend to speak for the community wanted convenient parking.

It is vitally important for all of us to attend the zoning hearing on Wednesday, June 20 at 2:00, 1515 Arch St., 18th floor. We cannot allow the preservation & progress of our community to be hijacked for petty individual reasons.

This is a 21st century version of paving Paradise and putting up a parking lot.

**Mustard** · 06-18-2012, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lolly

NOTE THIS CORRECTION - AS POSTED ON THE SOUTHWEST CENTER CITY FACEBOOK PAGE:
The rescheduled hearing will be on JUNE 20TH, not July 11th. 2pm.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/64575388202/

Does anyone else find it a little skeezy that the developer basically failed to show up or have his his sh-t together for the ZBA presentation not once but twice. The initial SOSNA presentation is pushing a half year ago.

For or against it's BS that everyone has to keep taking off work because these guys don't have their act together.

**boognish** · 06-18-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Lupo

And it will certainly cut down the air pollution caused by privately-owned cars, a matter which seems of no importance to Ms. Gross, although most of the young mothers and elderly in the neighborhood would certainly appreciate fewer cars on the streets. What about our quality of life, those of us who don't own cars but whose every breath is affected by those who do? We will not be "suffocated" by the lack of parking, as the writer alleges, but by the toxic air that more cars will bring.

You are completely delusional. Are you really claiming that this will decrease the air pollution in the area?

Wow.

**topogigio** · 06-18-2012, 10:25 AM

Density is great for our neighborhood. It's great for any neighborhood. An increase in the population supports local businesses and stimulates future development. The desirability to live in the area creates a stronger housing market with higher sale prices.

This particular developer has decided to restore and reuse the existing building which I understand is in need of extensive structural repair. Other contractors may decide to tear the church down and build several very expensive town homes which may or may not include parking spots as part of the design.

For those of you who think it is you civil right to have a parking space in front of your house or just down the block, you may have to start walking. Believe me, there's quite a few of you out there who could use the exercise.

**topogigio** · 06-18-2012, 01:32 PM

From Gail's recent flier:

"WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: More density, more people, more cars. Density, in moderation, is good for the neighborhood. It attracts businesses that serve our neighborhood: restaurants and shops that will make it an even better place to live. But density in our neighborhood is not the issue and apartment complexes like this one, with small apartments that serve students and other transitory residents, also strain the neighborhood. The increased density of an apartment complex like this one in a neighborhood of row homes can stress the public realm. Why is the public trash can across the street at Fitzwater and Grays Ferry always filled to the brim-because people in small apartments take their garbage out of their units a couple of times a week. Without adequate parking, we will suffocate ourselves and our businesses--which WILL affect the quality of life in our neighborhood."

Is there an apartment complex at the corner of Fitz. and GF that no one knows about? Most, if not all larger apartment buildings have garbage facilities in the basement--no need to use the public trash bin. The can was stuffed with garbage from Odunde which took place last Sunday.

Also, according to the official Odunde website, the festival attracts 500,000 people with 58% of them driving into Philadelphia--that's 290,000 people. It's quite amazing that they found parking spaces, apparently, without much difficulty. If you believe the statistics put forth by Oshun Bumi Fernandez, then you also have to believe that the area has enough parking spaces available on a Sunday to accommodate, assuming multiple occupancy in each vehicle, around 100,000 cars.

These figures just don't add up to Gail's claim that parking is impossible. Who's not telling the truth?

Regarding the quality of life issue, I'd much rather have law abiding and tax paying members of society in an apartment complex instead of drug dealing thugs living in public housing. Obviously, that is of no concern to Gail and her followers. I wonder why?

**Malloy** · 06-18-2012, 02:32 PM

But density in our neighborhood is not the issue and apartment complexes like this one, with small apartments that serve students and other transitory residents, also strain the neighborhood. The increased density of an apartment complex like this one in a neighborhood of row homes cans stress the public realm. Why is the public trash can across the street at Fitzwater and Grays Ferry always filled to the brim-because people in small apartments take their garbage out of their units a couple of times a week. Without adequate parking, we will suffocate ourselves and our businesses--which WILL affect the quality of life in our neighborhood."

Yea, more people in the area will 'suffocate businesses'

**annie** · 06-18-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by topogigio

Gail also does a great deal of volunteer work for the Democratic Party which, as we know, does run Philadelphia. Of course, it's extremely important for the party to keep their constituents and Gail seems to work hard to maintain the present power base by opposing development that may cause a shift in the demographics.

Ward 30, Division 14. Run against her.

**Lupo** · 06-18-2012, 06:20 PM

I can understand Ms. Gross's need for a parking space close to her house. If my personal safety was compromised, I would be anxious too. I would not & do not walk home late at night in our neighborhood. The underlying issue, which Ms. Gross does not address, is crime. Why doesn't Ms. Gross write about the drug dealers living in PHA housing, selling drugs & living at taxpayers' expense? Why doesn't she talk about her fear walking home among drug dealers & the customers flocking to the neighborhood? And the rise of crime in the neighborhood? Who would she, as a Democratic functionary, offend? Unless she confronts the real issues in GradHo, she will have to do as many of us do after a night out: take a cab & ask the driver to wait until we get in the door.

Parking spaces in the neighborhood is not a real issue. Crime, & the public subsidity of it in PHA houses, is. If Ms. Gross was honest & not beholden to the Democratic party which refuses to take any action because of their need for votes, she would focus her energies on making the streets safe so she would be comfortable walking home 2 or 3 blocks to her house.

**Gladys** · 06-18-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by topogigio

From Gail's recent flier:

"WHAT THIS MEANS TO YOU: More density, more people, more cars. Density, in moderation, is good for the neighborhood. It attracts businesses that serve our neighborhood: restaurants and shops that will make it an even better place to live. But density in our neighborhood is not the issue and apartment complexes like this one, with small apartments that serve students and other transitory residents, also strain the neighborhood. The increased density of an apartment complex like this one in a neighborhood of row homes can stress the public realm. Why is the public trash can across the street at Fitzwater and Grays Ferry always filled to the brim-because people in small apartments take their garbage out of their units a couple of times a week. Without adequate parking, we will suffocate ourselves and our businesses--which WILL affect the quality of life in our neighborhood."

Is there an apartment complex at the corner of Fitz. and GF that no one knows about? Most, if not all larger apartment buildings have garbage facilities in the basement--no need to use the public trash bin. The can was stuffed with garbage from Odunde which took place last Sunday.

Also, according to the official Odunde website, the festival attracts 500,000 people with 58% of them driving into Philadelphia--that's 290,000 people. It's quite amazing that they found parking spaces, apparently, without much difficulty. If you believe the statistics put forth by Oshun Bumi Fernandez, then you also have to believe that the area has enough parking spaces available on a Sunday to accommodate, assuming multiple occupancy in each vehicle, around 100,000 cars.

These figures just don't add up to Gail's claim that parking is impossible. Who's not telling the truth?

Regarding the quality of life issue, I'd much rather have law abiding and tax paying members of society in an apartment complex instead of drug dealing thugs living in public housing. Obviously, that is of no concern to Gail and her followers. I wonder why?

Glad to know she thinks anyone who lives in a small apt is a "student or other transient". Some people choose a nice apt in a good neighborhood because they want go live somewhere nice and that's what they can afford. How out of touch is this woman???

I have seen the trash can in question full and thought it weird, but where are there small apts there? seems to be that it must be someone in the houses.

**Gladys** · 06-18-2012, 07:02 PM

My situation has changed and I cannot be there on Wednesday but I sure hope whoever can attends!

**Spicoli** · 06-19-2012, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Gladys

Glad to know she thinks anyone who lives in a small apt is a "student or other transient". Some people choose a nice apt in a good neighborhood because they want go live somewhere nice and that's what they can afford. How out of touch is this woman???

I have seen the trash can in question full and thought it weird, but where are there small apts there? seems to be that it must be someone in the houses.

Even if the residents are "students or other transients"....so what? The rents that this place will likely charge mean that its not going to be a half-way house or Parker Hotel. They'll most likely be grad students, law students, residents, etc. and other single single professionals that are very welcome additions to the neighborhood. Heck, they may choose to stay and buy in the neighborhood after renting for a couple years.

I've lived in Chicago, NYC, Nottingham UK, Richmond for temporary periods of time. I guess that would make me a transient. But just because I was "transient" doesn't mean I'm going to pi$$ all over the neighborhood. Whenever I was there, I treated it like home.

**Gladys** · 06-19-2012, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Even if the residents are "students or other transients"....so what? The rents that this place will likely charge mean that its not going to be a half-way house or Parker Hotel. They'll most likely be grad students, law students, residents, etc. and other single single professionals that are very welcome additions to the neighborhood. Heck, they may choose to stay and buy in the neighborhood after renting for a couple years.

I've lived in Chicago, NYC, Nottingham UK, Richmond for temporary periods of time. I guess that would make me a transient. But just because I was "transient" doesn't mean I'm going to pi$$ all over the neighborhood. Whenever I was there, I treated it like home.

amen