Toll Bros South St project?
Did anyone go to the SOSNA meeting this week? Toll Brothers was on the agenda for their big garage->condo project. I'm curious to see if any new info or plans was revealed.
Yes, new plans were revealed. What they're proposing is to tear down the parking garage and replace it with a, I think, 73' tall condo building with the first floor dedicated to parking. The facade would be of varied materials to resemble townhouses rather than a single building. They showed rows of townhouses on the rest of the lot. Some have garages and the rest have parking on the inside of the condo building. The whole property will be fenced and they're calling it a gated community. I don't remember the exact number, but I think there will be something like 120 units in total.
Some objections raised by neighbors were: that the building turns a blank face to 24th St.and to Bainbridge St. with an empty ground floor; the developers responded that in their experience 'ladies' don't like windows on the ground floor that people can look into; that ground floor retail would make sense here (the Toll people said they don't manage retail properties); several people said they don't want another gated community here as it remains separate from the neighborhood rather being integrated with it.
I think one person spoke in favor of the project; all others expressed that improvements could be made. This was just an informational presentation, so they'll be back when they're ready to submit for variances. The garage is currently zoned industrial, so at the least they'll need a variance to convert it to residential.
I would like to see first floor retail here as it could be a large enough space to attract a substantial tenant and enrich our retail corridor. I also intensely dislike 'gated communities' in the middle of my neighborhood and hope that they'll change positions on that, but I'm doubtful as they see it as a strong selling point.
Last edited by devilspocket; 05-20-2011 at 07:55 PM.
Reason: to correct current zoning status - industrial, not commercial
On which block? Not the one between 17th and 18th? Isn't that used by Graduate Hospital?
Actually, I assume it must be farther West where Kater isn't an intervening street since it has Bainbridge frontage.
Last edited by gren; 05-20-2011 at 12:25 PM.
2400 between Bainbridge and South.
Originally Posted by gren
I don't think a gated community is a good idea. However, the style of the homes with a center garden looks very nice!
Originally Posted by Brian616
Brownstoner - Philadelphia: Toll's Grand Plans Post-Naval Square
They've revised the plans; the new ones don't look like the Brownstoner pictures although there is still a small garden area.
Hello and Happy Friday,
Of all the new construction that we have inspected over the years including numerous Toll Brother sites, in my experience Toll Brothers developments/houses leave something to be desired. I personally would not buy something built by them.
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What will happen to the existing retail nearby if all of these people move in? Has Girl + Bike + Dog or Betty's Speakeasy approved this project?
This is actually a project I'd have no problem objecting to or fighting (if the majority of the neighborhood also objects). To me, our neighborhood is already coming to a point of saturation of residential properties without the proper balance of retail. But its been fine as long as new residential development has been along on the lines of 'one's and two's' of rowhomes. Adding a large gated condo complex would push us to and over the edge of over-saturation IMO.
They already have one enormous gated community....which is fine since it did spur development in the neighborhood. However, no that the rest of the neighborhood has taken off, I'd prefer to see something the integrates itself within the neighborhood....not throw up a big middle finger to it.
However, if I am in the minority on this, I won't be a NIMBY about it either.
It seems that the smaller project on Bainbridge/Greys Ferry/ 24th St is more thought out w/r/t integrating itself in the neighborhood than this one is.
I'm in agreement. Having a few ground floor retail options at this location makes total sense. Their blanket statement "we don't do retail" is a terrible cop out.
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I find that our neighborhood is rather hypocritical about commercial - we are demanding it of Toll Bros. but as soon as a particular commercial project is proposed, there is great opposition.
Let's make sure that Toll produces the best project possible, but let's not kill the goose that laid the golden egg. If they don't want to do commercial (which is not ever in their development plans), I wouldn't make this a deal breaker. As the neighborhood matures, we will see the market kick in with more commercial all over the neighborhood.
I think Toll can and should think outside their usual box when developing in a City environment. Creating Naval Square as a gated community made sense since it was an already gated historical site. But it makes no sense whatsoever to create a new gated community inside a City neighborhood from scratch. And, whether or not they've ever done it before, I see no reason they can't make the ground floor units into retail condos. Then sell 'em and be done with them; they don't have to "manage retail."
I have no problem with another gated community. Some people want to live that way and are willing to pay more for that feeling of security. It will bring more residents to the area which will continue to entice businesses to locate here. There are still a lot of empty store fronts on South Street that could be filled. It would be nice if this place had retail but it's not a necessity IMO.
Another McTurd development from Toll Brothers.
Where is Bart Blatstien when you need him!
Toll Bros has a pretty godawful history of shoddy construction and shifty dealing. See The Truth About Toll Brothers, http://www.ablehomeinspection.com/in...globestory.pdf, and many more when you just google their name.
I also think we're at a pretty maxed-out ratio of residential to commerical properties and would prefer to see more retail development. I'm not a fan of gated communities. Let's hope the current Toll Bros plan gets some drastic revisions before it passes.
Anyone have any idea how tall the current 4-story garage is? Just trying to get a sense of how tall this thing will be. Also, will it be just the garage site, or also the warehouse to the west of it that's built to that height?
Recently new to philly speaks. Where is this located?
BOB HUGHES CHIMNEY/FIREPLACE AND DUCT CLEANING
at 24th and Bainbridge the proposed building is slightly higher than the current garage at 76 feet to the peak.
It will however have a different foot print stretching all the way to South st.
then they should not buy commercially zoned properties
Originally Posted by londoner
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