Ways to support Bedford Cafe (20th and Kater)

[Spicoli]

Sounds like he was permanently scarred by the experience in gho.

I can tell you from a first hand conversation that you are exactly right. Sad since at least one of the owners actually lives in SWCC. Also, sad that since they aren't exactly anonymous in the local restaurant scene, I doubt they're the only ones permanently scarred from G-Ho.

I would tend to think that unless there is a way to actively recruit more businesses to the neighborhood, its going to be very slow going.

[Gladys]

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KATER NIMBYS

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BLIGHT STILL AT 20TH AND KATER, CORNER STILL DARK, VERMIN STILL ROAM AND THE THING WILL FALL DOWN EVENTUALLY.

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I just want to put a big sign on it that says here stands avoidable blight. But i won't cause that's illegal. But I would love it if it were. Walking by it is like salt in a wound.

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Oh a nimby is a person in your neighborhood, in your neighborhood, in your neigh bore hood.

It galls me still how that was done and how people with money can find a way do whatever they like. I'm not surprised, it just ticks me off.

ok rant over,,, there that feels better.

[AndyStokes]

The neighbors at 22nd and Spruce were very much against Meme getting a liquor license, which is why Meme was BYOB and then only had a beer and wine license for a while. They eventually got a full license, I'm not sure if there are any hard feelings left over from that.

Sounds like P&K is getting better advice on how to deal with neighbors, or gearing up for another fight.

[Lolly]

I would tend to think that unless there is a way to actively recruit more businesses to the neighborhood, its going to be very slow going.

Call me an incurable optimist, but I really don't think the NIMBYs among us can keep us down around here very much longer.

And...

Sounds like P&K is getting better advice on how to deal with neighbors, or gearing up for another fight.

This.

NIMBYs exist everywhere. There are always more flies to catch with honey... Or, is the one about there being more ways than one to skin a cat the more apt saying in this instance?...

[OffenseTaken]

NIMBYs exist everywhere. There are always more flies to catch with honey... Or, is the one about there being more ways than one to skin a cat the more apt saying in this instance?...

For real.

This neighborhood gets judged too harshly. We don't need a rehash of the fight, but let's not forget that SOSNA, which is a wonderful organization, gave the Bedford a clean bill of health. The neighborhood leadership here is smart and effective. The Bedford didn't get killed by a pitchfork-wielding mob; it got killed by a very strange couple with very strange ideas. They had their sympathizers, sure, but you can find their like in NoLibs as well—probably the most intelligently-run neighborhood in the city, if no longer really the hippest.

I think we should try to be a little more thankful for all of the great things that the Neighborhood of "No" has said "Yes" to. Hell, we're not Old City.

[Gladys]

Call me an incurable optimist, but I really don't think the NIMBYs among us can keep us down around here very much longer.

And...



This.

NIMBYs exist everywhere. There are always more flies to catch with honey... Or, is the one about .... the more apt saying in this instance?...

I prefer the honey.

[Gladys]

For real.

This neighborhood gets judged too harshly. We don't need a rehash of the fight, but let's not forget that SOSNA, which is a wonderful organization, gave the Bedford a clean bill of health. The neighborhood leadership here is smart and effective. The Bedford didn't get killed by a pitchfork-wielding mob; it got killed by a very strange couple with very strange ideas. They had their sympathizers, sure, but you can find their like in NoLibs as well—probably the most intelligently-run neighborhood in the city, if no longer really the hippest.

yes sosna is awesome. I love them!

[BarryG]

For real.

This neighborhood gets judged too harshly. We don't need a rehash of the fight, but let's not forget that SOSNA, which is a wonderful organization, gave the Bedford a clean bill of health. The neighborhood leadership here is smart and effective. The Bedford didn't get killed by a pitchfork-wielding mob; it got killed by a very strange couple with very strange ideas. They had their sympathizers, sure, but you can find their like in NoLibs as well—probably the most intelligently-run neighborhood in the city, if no longer really the hippest.

I think we should try to be a little more thankful for all of the great things that the Neighborhood of "No" has said "Yes" to. Hell, we're not Old City.

Not to be a dick but what do you have to show for this intelligence? Looking from the outside all I see are are a couple generic gastropubs, scores of ugly cookie-cutter homes, crap retail on Christian St, and drug-related shootouts. Old City at least is worth a visit from outside the neighborhood.

[Gladys]

work in progress

[Lolly]

Not to be a dick but what do you have to show for this intelligence? Looking from the outside all I see are are a couple generic gastropubs, scores of ugly cookie-cutter homes, crap retail on Christian St, and drug-related shootouts. Old City at least is worth a visit from outside the neighborhood.

Looking from the inside... South Street West and the 22nd Street corridor really coming along... An amazingly livable community in which to live... great (the best) neighbors... fun events... plenty of very nice new buildings and rehabs too... lots more coming down the pike...

[Spicoli]

Looking from the inside... South Street West and the 22nd Street corridor really coming along... An amazingly livable community in which to live... great (the best) neighbors... fun events... plenty of very nice new buildings and rehabs too... lots more coming down the pike...

Sorry. Also coming from the inside, I just don't buy it. My view is more in line with BarryG.

I'm currently in the Middle East on business. Before I left, I was out walking my dog. As I was walking over over newest landmark (the sinkhole on 21st and Bainbridge), I was thinking back to about 3 yrs ago when I was looking to buy a house in center city. I had narrowed my preferred locations to BV/QV area, East Passy, and SWCC. I had eliminated No Libs, Fishtown, Fairmount etc thinking they didn't have as much upside since they seems to be a bit isolated from center city. I chose SWCC thinking it had the best upside along with the convenience to center city, UC, and 76. I now feel a bit depressed that I chose poorly. The best advantage I have is that I bought a house with parking since I now use my car to go to new shops in E Passy and No Libs and take cabs to bars in Fishtown.

If I had to bet what we had more of in the last 3 yrs between shootings and net new businesses, I'd hands down bet shootings. The top GDP in our neighborhood is still drugs...and that shows no sign of stopping anytime soon....even though absolutely everyone knows whos doing it and where. My neighbors...and increasingly me...have progressed from "we need to do something about it...how can get this out" to "I've come to just tolerate it" to "I'm numb to it now since the city won't shut it down". The last two overnight guests I've had at my house have had their cars broken into. Oddly enough, its safer for me to walk around town at night here in the Middle East than it is in my home neighborhood.

If eyesores like Lucky Day and the Check Cashing place had been located in E Passy or No Libs in such a convenient area, they'd been flipped by now. Ultimo (if it ever opens) is a start, but hardly a solution. If you know more about this supposed "lots coming down the pike" on the 22nd street corridor, please share. From my vantage, there is no vision in SWCC, just spot zoning and hoping something will happen.

In my three years here, the biggest developments we said "yes" to are the Toll Brothers monstrosity coming to 2400 South and whatever was proposed at the former chocolate factory that's never gonna happen.

It was pointed out at a SOSNA general meeting that a vision for the commercial corridors needs to be developed and executed. That meeting was never followed up on. At that meeting, I approached the head of the economic development committee and expressed my interest to get involved. She was really too busy kissing up to local NIMBY to be bothered and told me give me her card and she would contact me.....that never came.

But we do have Bloctoberfest...I'll give it that. And as a pre-emptive, please spare me the "if I don't like it, move comments". I've lived in the city for years and love Philly....just my neighborhood has really been disappointing lately.

[Gladys]

Another property owner moved out to another neighborhood recently because of similar things. A lack of vision. We don't know who we are and was unwilling to wait for the development of more park space. They said the neighborhood was made up of people who just landed here and don't know why.

I thought it was an odd comment. But am starting to understand after reading your post.

[torts]

A few drone strikes would do wonders for this neighborhood. Think of all the trash we could have buried in the sinkhole on 21st & Bainbridge.

[InYourVacancies]

They said the neighborhood was made up of people who just landed here and don't know why.

Honestly, this actually made me laugh, partly because of a wierd mental image but also because it just made too much sense. Since I moved here from Oxford Circle, the neighborhood has grown on me, however the lack of interesting development leaves it feeling like a blank canvas with way too much potential to be held back by people so afraid of everything.

Look at our contributions to the Ave of the Arts. A sprinkling of cool old buildings, but mostly uninteresting retail like McDonalds and...MAB paints. Granted, some of them are awesomely convenient but still. Our corner of what could be an awesome southern end to the Ave at Washington is a friggen parking lot.

[BarryG]

...

[torts]

Now that the check cashing store is gone, I wonder how our neighbors are cashing their checks. I know that was a big concern for many of us. I hope they're ok. It's really keeping me up at night.

[OffenseTaken]

Honestly, this actually made me laugh, partly because of a wierd mental image but also because it just made too much sense. Since I moved here from Oxford Circle, the neighborhood has grown on me, however the lack of interesting development leaves it feeling like a blank canvas with way too much potential to be held back by people so afraid of everything.

Look at our contributions to the Ave of the Arts. A sprinkling of cool old buildings, but mostly uninteresting retail like McDonalds and...MAB paints. Granted, some of them are awesomely convenient but still. Our corner of what could be an awesome southern end to the Ave at Washington is a friggen parking lot.

The lack of a main drag might hurt the neighborhood more than anything. Even Christian is about 90% residential. Most of the shop spaces are on isolated corners; the neighborhood organizations have generally gotten behind new business ideas—even controversial ones that bait insane NIMBY's—but it's still a tough sell. As for Broad, technically sharing a neighborhood with some boring, unimaginative people really is the least of its worries. I think we all know the problems run much deeper than that.

I'm not making a case that Grad Hospital is an exciting neighborhood by any stretch of the imagination. We live on Bainbridge; when we leave our house, it's to go into CC, or up or down South St. If it weren't for the Sidecar—a wonderfully cute place, but no gastronomic adventure—we would have absolutely no reason to venture in the other direction, toward the middle of the neighborhood. So it's kind of lame, sure, but we're lucky that SOSNA makes itself part of the solution to that, rather than the problem, like so many NA's elsewhere in the city.

[Lolly]

Some of what folks are saying here seems funny to me. Because things have changed even faster than I imagined they would when we first bought here. But judging from what others here feel, I guess I'm more patient than I thought.

Yeah, we've had our share of set-backs (most notably the Bedford Cafe and Tria debacles) but I also think we've made some pretty big strides in a very short time - when you consider the economy especially.

Like I said earlier, so much more is beginning to happen now, or is right on the cusp. Have a stroll through News | SOSNA | South of South Neighborhood Association for some of the stuff I'm talking about. That is, including... new and improved green spaces like Catherine Park and Julian Abele Park, and (hopefully, soon) Carpenter Green... events like Plazapalooza and Bloktoberfest... Friends of Chester Arthur (new playgroud with more to come) and Supporters of Stanton (saved this amazing school from being closed down!)... the Triangles project... CHOP on it's way (yeah you gotta be really patient for that one, but it's coming, just wait)... We've also got the new 19 Degrees Cafe at 19th & Christian, (hopefully soon) a Vietnamese restaurant at 20th & Carpenter, Ultimo (also soon) + as I understand it, much more in the works for that corner... and more exciting new mixed-use developments coming, like Carpenter Square and Bloc 23...

So I'll say again - yes, NIMBYs are everywhere, not just in SWCC. We are not THE neighborhood of "No" - we are far from it. Folks (here and anywhere) perhaps are just getting better at playing the game, and more consistently navigating around them.

But then again, admittedly I've always been more of a glass-half-full person so maybe it's just me.

[nuosc]

It was pointed out at a SOSNA general meeting that a vision for the commercial corridors needs to be developed and executed.

Yep---it is the lack of a neighborhood-wide plan that is really hurting us. It is what leads to intense fights over corner cafes that nearby neighbors don't want and those a block or so away do, or new convenience stores that aren't "what this neighborhood is about." If we had an agreed-upon set of commercial corridors, then no one would be up in arms about the retail or restaurant that moves in next door: they'd either already agreed they want those things, or be assured they're never coming nearby.

It seems to me that the logical corridors for development---based on what is already happening and what people seem to want---are South Street (West), 22nd Street, Christian Street, and Washington Ave, with perhaps the Gray's Ferry triangles as an extension of South Street. Perhaps if SOSNA could get the neighborhood to agree on something like this---expect commercial to be coming in these places, including perhaps noise and parking issues, etc.---but not in other places, we could stop fighting every time a new place tries to open up. And it would reassure developers and business that they won't have to fight the kinds of fights that others have gone through in recent years.

[BrianL]

If we had support from our council person over the years I wonder what might be different, but the previous and current one seem to treat us as an afterthought.