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  1. #41
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    Where's my pop corn. For that aria I want a bow and applause from all i've entertained.
    How about if I just throw some popcorn at you?

    For the record, I don't condone the reckless bikers, and I don't want Gladys and her little dogs bowled over as they walk. I just find the whole thing a very vexed subject. As I said, there's too much riffraff on those trails for me nowadays so when I bike I prefer the slums and The Lakes.

    Nevertheless, Gladys, compared to some you really *are* a relative newcomer.
    Laura Blanchard
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  2. #42
    Sycamore is offline Sure Shot
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    Oh dear gawd.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sycamore View Post
    Oh dear gawd.
    I love you too.
    Laura Blanchard
    lb_philly@yahoo.com

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbphilly View Post
    "Streets are meant for cars"...? "Show the car the proper respect"...???? Sweet mother of pearl, where to start?

    I didn't realize that you had the awesome power to walk away from hitting a car unscathed, or that the horse and buggy are still prevelant in this city. In the 21st century, the streets are primarily for cars and the streets are maintained by car owners paying the related taxes.

    An accident with a car will seriously injure you; therefore, you need to respect it's presence and ability to maim you.

    Quote Originally Posted by lbphilly View Post
    This is, not to put too fine a point on it, a load of crap. City street predate the automobile by a couple of centuries, and bikes traveled those streets a couple decades before cars as well. Bicyclists have all the same rights to the roads as motor vehicles, with certain exceptions such as limited access highways (which are clearly marked).
    And they also have the same legal obligations to follow the traffic laws, too bad this doesn't happen. If cars did what bikes did on a regular basis there be a 10-fold increase in accidents in this city.

    Quote Originally Posted by lbphilly View Post
    As a motorist, you have every right to deprecate those cyclists who do not obey traffic laws. You do not have a right to deprecate those who obey the laws.
    The conversation centered around those cyclists who were putting pedestrians at risk by weaving between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by lbphilly View Post
    As for Gladys and West River Drive closings: I am still not certain that she is aware of my principal point, which is that if virtually all the mornings when the Drive is closed from the Art Museum to Sweebriar Cutoff are given over to charity walks etc., then the original purpose for which the Drive was closed is thwarted.
    Cry me a river, then you can ride your bike past it instead of WRD.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbphilly View Post
    How about if I just throw some popcorn at you?

    For the record, I don't condone the reckless bikers, and I don't want Gladys and her little dogs bowled over as they walk. I just find the whole thing a very vexed subject. As I said, there's too much riffraff on those trails for me nowadays so when I bike I prefer the slums and The Lakes.

    Nevertheless, Gladys, compared to some you really *are* a relative newcomer.
    Why do you feel the need to fly the flag - i've been here longer than you have? It's so grade school. Incidentally i know families who have had a house in the neighborhood longer than you. Does that mean your comments have no value and when they decide to post they can act like a school girl to you? Please, that is ridiculous who cares. get a grip. If that makes you feel good go for it. I'll patronize you as much as you would like. You've also been on the planet longer than i have so i guess you win na na na na na na.

    Just to keep track, here the conversation denigrates or ends when someone invokes hitler, nyc and or long have you lived here. Good to know. I'll run and update wiki with the special PS section of Godwin's law.

    Last edited by Gladys; 11-04-2010 at 01:08 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by clonechemist View Post
    This might come off as snobby, but I think this is the root of the problem. For those of us who live in the city and love to run, rollerblade, bike, or whatever for a good workout or just to relax, the closed MLK drive on the weekends is essentially seen as an extension of the park. It's a city-maintained resource that is for us, as lbphilly has described. When giant hordes of men, women, children, and their pets, who are from outside the city and have no idea that they are robbing us of a beloved resource, come and occupy the entire area in a seemingly slobby and unnecessary way, we, the regular MLK users who are out there every weekend, get upset. I don't blame the individuals because, as you say, they are not from here, and in their position it would seem like a reasonable assumption that the whole road is closed for the event. Really the organizers need to figure out how to leave at least one full vehicle lane for all the regular recreational users. When you say on one hand that the regular recreational users need to accomodate the walkers and go at a different time, and on the other hand you admit that the walkers are people from outside the city who have no idea what they are impeding and just assume there is no need to share, you can see how that seems unreasonable, right? And for the record I'm sorry that you almost got run over.
    I do see how you are thinking.. from my point of view most participants don't know they supposed to share it. That is what needs changing. Either it gets closed or the city makes sure there is enough room for two lanes of bikes. Does that make sense. I'm not advocating no bikes. I'm advocating safety, however its achieved. The city screwed up.

  7. #47
    boognish is online now Senior Member
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    It's amazing to see people whining about not being able to ride their bikes for a few hours on a certain day of the week because of events that raise money for CHARITY.

    So selfish. So typical.

    Oh wait, you donate money to charities? Big whoop. Anyone can enter digits on a website or mail a check. These people are going out of their way to donate time and money for charitable causes. My wife raised over a thousand dollars for the Pancreatic Cancer walk this weekend in the name of her father who died less than 6 months after diagnosis in the prime of his life. She'll have the opportunity to meet and bond with others while bringing much needed attention to a horrible disease. And you're whining that your fat ass can't pedal up and down one of just many areas in the city for a few hours?

    I feel sorry for you.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by boognish View Post
    It's amazing to see people whining about not being able to ride their bikes for a few hours on a certain day of the week because of events that raise money for CHARITY.

    So selfish. So typical.

    Oh wait, you donate money to charities? Big whoop. Anyone can enter digits on a website or mail a check. These people are going out of their way to donate time and money for charitable causes. My wife raised over a thousand dollars for the Pancreatic Cancer walk this weekend in the name of her father who died less than 6 months after diagnosis in the prime of his life. She'll have the opportunity to meet and bond with others while bringing much needed attention to a horrible disease. And you're whining that your fat ass can't pedal up and down one of just many areas in the city for a few hours?

    I feel sorry for you.
    Your characterization of my physique is accurate. I don't whine. I state my opinion. There are not that many areas in the city where I can pedal car-free in the street. Since the WRD's closing hours have now been given over to charity walks I've found one of the few other places.

    But you don't need to feel sorry for me, unless it makes you feel good. I would by no means suspend that pleasure for you.
    Laura Blanchard
    lb_philly@yahoo.com

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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladys View Post
    Why do you feel the need to fly the flag - i've been here longer than you have? It's so grade school. Incidentally i know families who have had a house in the neighborhood longer than you. Does that mean your comments have no value and when they decide to post they can act like a school girl to you? Please, that is ridiculous who cares. get a grip. If that makes you feel good go for it. I'll patronize you as much as you would like. You've also been on the planet longer than i have so i guess you win na na na na na na.

    Just to keep track, here the conversation denigrates or ends when someone invokes hitler, nyc and or long have you lived here. Good to know. I'll run and update wiki with the special PS section of Godwin's law.

    That's right. I'm older than you, so you better respect your elders, Missy. Just for the record, though: were you aware of the efforts to close the WRD by the Bicycle Coalition in the 1990s?
    Laura Blanchard
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  10. #50
    hkp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digthepast View Post
    blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

    As a group, bicyclists obey traffic laws as much as motorists--and, yes, pedestrians--in this town.

    "Obeying laws" is also irrelevant to your point...
    In Philadelphia!?!? Sorry, I don't see cars flying through stop signs without even slowing down or shooting through red lights on A DAILY BASIS. I have yet to see a car going the wrong way down the street in the middle of the lane. Again, bike riders do this on a daily basis.

    Great, most bike riders don't do these things overall. Most I see everyday downtown do dangerous things on their bikes that could seriously injure pedestrians or get themselves killed, though. You're probably not a disrespectful @#$%# so you stick to the roads you're supposed to and don't see these morons. Trust me, the frequency of dummy hipsters flying through stop signs almost killing people trying to cross the street happens far more often than car drivers making similarly poor decisions.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkp View Post
    In Philadelphia!?!? Sorry, I don't see cars flying through stop signs without even slowing down or shooting through red lights on A DAILY BASIS. I have yet to see a car going the wrong way down the street in the middle of the lane. Again, bike riders do this on a daily basis.

    Great, most bike riders don't do these things overall. Most I see everyday downtown do dangerous things on their bikes that could seriously injure pedestrians or get themselves killed, though. You're probably not a disrespectful @#$%# so you stick to the roads you're supposed to and don't see these morons. Trust me, the frequency of dummy hipsters flying through stop signs almost killing people trying to cross the street happens far more often than car drivers making similarly poor decisions.
    Sadly, I have to agree that a lot of cyclists are less than respectful of stop signs and red lights. I haven't seen too many near misses, but on my trip over to Penn yesterday I saw at least a dozen cyclists blow through red lights while I waited for the light to change. (EDIT: And that wrong-way-down-the-middle-of-the-street stuff makes me want poke sticks in their spokes. However, I've had some of the perps tell me that it's the law...I think there's a lot of misinformation out there.)

    I would support a well-publicized push to ticket these folks, possibly preceded by some period of issuing warnings to get the naughty cyclists' attention (as was done, I think, when seat belt and cell phone laws were introduced). Many cyclists have motor vehicle drivers' licenses and it would be salutary for them to discover how many points they could rack up in one short run across town. For some of those guys, they could lose their licenses in short order.

    BCDV did a public awareness initiative of that sort when the Spruce/Pine bike lanes were first established, but something with teeth would be better.

    And I'm a little bit sorry I picked on you, Gladys. You're a nice person, although you're way too much fun to tease.

    Perhaps in return for these admissions, I could get an amen for the idea that the charity walk organizers could give a nod to the cyclists who secured that car-free space for them in the first place and carve out a lane for others to use?
    Laura Blanchard
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    Originally Posted by Digthepast View Post
    blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....

    As a group, bicyclists obey traffic laws as much as motorists--and, yes, pedestrians--in this town.

    "Obeying laws" is also irrelevant to your point...
    ...and this is why motorist hate bicyclists. Stop acting like such an agrieved group.
    You're the one whining. I stop at red lights, and do as well or better at stop signs than most motorists, and I do a hell of a lot better at obeying the speed limit than most motorists, too. So your generalizations about "bicyclists" are meaningless to me.

    I don't believe that "motorist hate bicyclists." Some may, but frankly, their hatreds are their own problem, and from what I can tell, are based on prejudices similar to your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    You're using the streets that are meant for cars,
    Well, I'll stop you right there! Streets are not "meant for" cars. They were laid out in some cases hundreds of years before there were cars, and by law, they are now multi-use lanes, unless they are limited access highways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    perhaps you should show the car the proper respect. After all the bicyclist will lose everytime when getting in an accident with a car.
    I'll be sure to curtsey next time I see a car.

    So you started out arguing that because "bicyclists all disobey the law," we should be willing to share facilities that we already share (and have no problem sharing) with pedestrians. One did not follow from the other. Now it's all about the relative mass of the three forms of transport. It's like trying to follow that intellectual moving target that posts under the name of desolate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    There's a big difference here, if two motorists get in an accident here at 20-25 mph, it's a fender bender, but chances are that the driver will be unharmed. A car and a bike hit each other at the same speed, or a bike hits a walker at that speed, and someone's getting seriously hurt.
    Funny, but in 40+ years of riding a bike, I've never hit a pedestrian, though plenty of opportunities have presented themselves. I've always managed to avoid them, largely by paying attention.

    And you conveniently forgot what happens when a car hits a pedestrian at 20-25 mph. Then someone goes to the morgue. A good friend was killed in the Northeast last year, in a crosswalk, crossing with the light, by a motorist who wasn't paying attention.

    .
    Last edited by Digthepast; 11-04-2010 at 10:18 PM. Reason: speling
    The right wing never wants to be satisfied. They are professional whiners.
    They are never happy. So donít kill yourself trying.

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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    I didn't realize that you had the awesome power to walk away from hitting a car unscathed, or that the horse and buggy are still prevelant in this city, because I've never ever been to Old City or Independance Hall, and besides, aren't those carriages pulled by giraffes? In the 21st century, the streets are primarily for cars and the streets are maintained by car owners and pedestrians and bicyclists who are also paying the related taxes.

    An accident with a car will seriously injure you; therefore, you need to respect it's presence and ability to maim you. You! Yeah you! Bow down to the mighty automobile and RESPECT ITS PRESENCE, or else...

    And they also have the same legal obligations to follow the traffic laws, too bad this doesn't happen except when it does, but this is my rant, and I get to define reality. If cars did what bikes did on a regular basis there be a 10-fold increase in accidents in this city, And if motorists obeyed traffic laws, there'd be tenfold DECREASE in accidents in this city.

    The conversation centered around those cyclists who were putting pedestrians at risk by weaving between them. The thread wasn't about the re-opening of the South Street Bridge!

    Cry me a river, then you can ride your bike past it instead of WRD Better yet, I'll cry myself a river, and then I can drive Duck Boats on it. Yahoo!.
    ...fixed
    The right wing never wants to be satisfied. They are professional whiners.
    They are never happy. So donít kill yourself trying.

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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digthepast View Post
    ...fixed
    so unoriginal. I did it so well you had to copy it.

    Go back to crying that people are walking in front of your bike on the river drives. That was more entertaining.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    so unoriginal. I did it so well you had to copy it.
    ...as if you invented it. Now you're the Al Gore of PhillySpeaks?

    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    Go back to crying that people are walking in front of your car at 20th and Market. That was more entertaining.
    There!

    My concern was more that pedestrians on multi-use trails sometimes tend to walk around in an attitude that a police department friend used to refer to as "HUA" (head up a**), though to be fair, he originally used it to refer to motorists.
    The right wing never wants to be satisfied. They are professional whiners.
    They are never happy. So donít kill yourself trying.

    --Ken Duberstein (Ronald Reaganís Chief of Staff),
    advising John McCain on his VP selection

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digthepast View Post
    You're the one whining. I stop at red lights, and do as well or better at stop signs than most motorists, and I do a hell of a lot better at obeying the speed limit than most motorists, too. So your generalizations about "bicyclists" are meaningless to me.


    .
    Great. Glad you obey the law. But this conversation is centered around bicyclists as a group, not just you.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkp View Post
    In Philadelphia!?!? Sorry, I don't see cars flying through stop signs without even slowing down or shooting through red lights on A DAILY BASIS.
    I guess you don't drive in South Philly too often.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaotic View Post
    Great. Glad you obey the law. But this conversation is centered around bicyclists as a group, not just you.
    ...who "as a group" are as law-abiding as motorists, with their "rolling stops" and excessive speed, or pedestrians with their jaywalking. Which is to say, everyone follows the law, unless they think it is physically and legally safe to do otherwise.

    You'd like to characterize an entire group based on something that you've seen a few individuals do. That's fine, but as a motorist in this town, that can turn right back around at you.
    The right wing never wants to be satisfied. They are professional whiners.
    They are never happy. So donít kill yourself trying.

    --Ken Duberstein (Ronald Reaganís Chief of Staff),
    advising John McCain on his VP selection

  19. #59
    hkp
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    Quote Originally Posted by cugat View Post
    I guess you don't drive in South Philly too often.
    Yeah, I didn't bother knocking on wood when I made that post haha. Yesterday, coming home from work, I saw some idiot from Jersey intentionally get off of Columbus bvd because he was too impatient to wait for the line of cars at Christian and haul ass up Queen St obviously going the wrong way (he turned his blinkers on while going at least 30 like that would prevent disaster somehow).

    I still stand by my claim that most cars will not blow through red lights or stop signs - at least without slowing down. Stop signs are apparently closer to yield signs to a lot of people here. Some guy tried to fight me last month because I drove in front of him as he rolled through the stop sign on 4th and Christian. He was screaming like a maniac that I cut him off. I came to a complete stop at my stop sign before turning and he didn't even slow down below 5mph before having to slam his brakes for me.

    /tangent

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digthepast View Post
    ...who "as a group" are as law-abiding as motorists, with their "rolling stops" and excessive speed, or pedestrians with their jaywalking. Which is to say, everyone follows the law, unless they think it is physically and legally safe to do otherwise.

    You'd like to characterize an entire group based on something that you've seen a few individuals do. That's fine, but as a motorist in this town, that can turn right back around at you.

    As a group, drivers can face fines and loss of driving priledges when they break the law and are accountable via registration insurance and plates to identify the operators of the car.

    Bikes, however, hove zero accountability for thier actions. None. As such they generally don't follow any traffic laws.

    and actually think it's totally fine to roll lights.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

 

 

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