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  1. #41
    John Goodman is online now Senior Member
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    Its interesting that this woman is white

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeL View Post
    She owns the most expensive house on the block in question. Posting her address on a public site could be misconstrued (even though it's public information), so I'll leave that up as an exercise to the reader.
    Unfortunately for her, in my opinion, she did not come off very well at the meeting a few weeks back. She lashed out emotionally and didn't really appear to have any facts to substantiate her claims. Ori came to the meeting well-prepared and appeared to have taken prior neighbor complaints into consideradion and had tried to work out compromises. It appeared to be much more of a personal vendetta against him...she accused him of lying to her and basically ranted on about property values...which, as noted, above, really are not germaine to the issues at hand. I went to the meeting trying to be open-minded with regard to both sides of the argument, but she really, really turned me off. I feel as if she's painted herself into a corner and just can't bring herself to compromise in any way.
    Last edited by Julia1020; 07-10-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    So are SLAPP tactics OK when they're used by a developer you're friends with?

    This woman seems a little off kilter, but she also seems largely irrelevant to the future of this project, not unlike many other NIMBYs around the city. This kind of behavior by OCF just galvanizes opposition against him and turns more people from ambivalence to opposition.

  4. #44
    eldondre is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Goodman View Post
    Its interesting that this woman is white
    contrary to popular opinion, selfish nutcases are often white. of course, if the woman were black, everyone would assume she was a racist.
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  5. #45
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    SPHINC is now saying they no longer support the project, even though they sent out the support letter on their own letterhead.

    Kinda too late to change your mind and also override the voting.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia1020 View Post
    It appeared to be much more of a personal vendetta against him...she accused him of lying to her and basically ranted on about property values...which, as noted, above, really are not germaine to the issues at hand.
    She's just pissed that with AVI her taxes are going up about $800 a year. She's only paying about $1100 now.

    Guess that why's she is blaming Ori. Well, boo, f###ing hoo for her...

  7. #47
    tsarstruck is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    So are SLAPP tactics OK when they're used by a developer you're friends with?
    No, but of course this ISN'T SLAPP, since there's no actual lawsuit.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsarstruck View Post
    No, but of course this ISN'T SLAPP, since there's no actual lawsuit.
    It's a defamation claim. Whether or not it's a SLAPP case depends a lot on what was said and whether it was truthful.


    The best defense from a defamation suit is the truth. I got into a nasty bout of SLAPP with a developer who wants to open a nightclub who also happens to have had a bit of a criminal justice problem; he thought because he got his charge dismissed on a technicality that I was out of line for stating he had a "criminal record", but criminal activity described by the the petitioner went to the NJ Supreme Court.

    I'm going off of the letter Ori's lawyer writes citing the misleading statements Haley supposedly made. This letter will obviously be Exhibit A if Ori actually does sue Haley after today. Assuming she posted what she did, does it make it enough to make for a libel suit? In Pennsylvania, yes. A strong one for the plaintiff? Not certain about that.


    Opinion is libelslander-proof, and it IS kind of important when you're going to accuse someone that the context be fairly obvious that what's coming out of your mouth and hands is opinion, parody or fiction and not factual. To say "SAY NO TO PROJECT Y! Developer X is a criminal and he molests children!!!" for example in an attempt to shock neighbors is plenty to expose you to a defamation claim if either claim is untrue. But to say "Hah it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if I heard Developer X is a criminal and molests children"... well that's an opining musing.

    There's defenses in these types of cases for sure; you want to make sure the plaintiff is seen as a public figure because it raises the standard for succeeding in a defamation case.


    If you really DID error out, you have to retract when you get a C&D letter precursor to a defamation suit. But if the defamation clame is entirely baseless... as in it's containing clear threats to ruin you with no clear references to the actual words that were said that constitute libel or slander... you don't have just a defamation case you have a defamation case that is a SLAPP suit.


    If I write a blog that is 100% opinion and parody and I get defamation threats, they are all SLAPP threats.

    If I write a blog that mixes facts and editorialization and the FACTS that I post are flat out wrong and I refuse to correct them when they're patently obvious that they're wrong, *that* creates exposure to defamation claims. If the facts are correct but the objector is just purely unhappy I put it up and is pulling the legal trigger in hopes to silence me, that's SLAPP.
    Last edited by ArcticSplash; 07-10-2013 at 10:23 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    So are SLAPP tactics OK when they're used by a developer you're friends with?
    Well, we saw what happened with OCCA dissolving itself, and I believe part of the suits they dealt with were defamation claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    This woman seems a little off kilter, but she also seems largely irrelevant to the future of this project, not unlike many other NIMBYs around the city. This kind of behavior by OCF just galvanizes opposition against him and turns more people from ambivalence to opposition.
    Haley hasn't said nearly as bad or patently false stuff as CCPB has. I think Haley's making false claims, but I wonder about their severity compared to the outlandish charges that come out of CCPB. I haven't talked to Ori about Haley until this morning, but I wonder if this "Nuclear Option" against NIMBYs would be used against Concerned Citizens of Point Breeze against some of their more outrageous claims.

    I think if you pull the trigger in any defamation suit, if your goal is to silence opposition and not defend yourself from defamation, all you will do is trigger the Streisand Effect and get more eyeballs you didn't want locked in on the dispute. If you're serious about making sure that truthfulness prevails and economic damage isn't a result of the claims because a broad audience takes the claims as gospel, then that's what defamation torts are for.


    The question that would have to be asked is: Do reasonable people believe what Haley says?


    It didn't appear that the room believed Haley when she was quizzing Ori at the RCO meeting. The voting turned out in favor of Ori. (But SPHINC is now overriding the voting and saying they're withdrawing their support)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    Well, we saw what happened with OCCA dissolving itself, and I believe part of the suits they dealt with were defamation claims.



    Haley hasn't said nearly as bad or patently false stuff as CCPB has. I think Haley's making false claims, but I wonder about their severity compared to the outlandish charges that come out of CCPB. I haven't talked to Ori about Haley until this morning, but I wonder if this "Nuclear Option" against NIMBYs would be used against Concerned Citizens of Point Breeze against some of their more outrageous claims.

    I think if you pull the trigger in any defamation suit, if your goal is to silence opposition and not defend yourself from defamation, all you will do is trigger the Streisand Effect and get more eyeballs you didn't want locked in on the dispute. If you're serious about making sure that truthfulness prevails and economic damage isn't a result of the claims because a broad audience takes the claims as gospel, then that's what defamation torts are for.


    The question that would have to be asked is: Do reasonable people believe what Haley says?


    It didn't appear that the room believed Haley when she was quizzing Ori at the RCO meeting. The voting turned out in favor of Ori. (But SPHINC is now overriding the voting and saying they're withdrawing their support)
    I consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person but, as noted above, she did herself no favors at the RCO meeting. Honestly, I couldn't really even understand what she was talking about...it appeared driven by pure emotion. When she lashed out and referenced Ori trying to build his and his girlfriend's dream house, I just shut her out. I think that bringing up anything personal like that has no place in such a meeting (as in, who the hell cares if he wants to build himself a house and make money in the process...is he supposed to build houses for a loss?).

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    SPHINC is now saying they no longer support the project, even though they sent out the support letter on their own letterhead.

    Kinda too late to change your mind and also override the voting.
    Are they actually saying that though, or did the Daily News writer just get it twisted, perhaps confusing letter of non-opposition with letter of non-support.

    South Philadelphia Homes Inc., the area's registered community organization, sent the ZBA a letter of nonsupport for the project, according to Councilman Kenyatta Johnson's office.
    Read more at Developer Ori Feibush sends warning letter to project's opponent
    “Guys like you I would dispatch with my roofing axe.” -- BootsywannabeACretin

  12. #52
    ofeibush is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
    Are they actually saying that though, or did the Daily News writer just get it twisted, perhaps confusing letter of non-opposition with letter of non-support.

    They changed their position from support to opposition sometime after they sent me a letter of support dated June 25, 2013 with a vote count of 55-26. They asked me to remove the parking...and I did and somehow that triggered a worse vote??

  13. #53
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    Ori, have you considered starring in a reality TV show?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    They changed their position from support to opposition sometime after they sent me a letter of support dated June 25, 2013 with a vote count of 55-26. They asked me to remove the parking...and I did and somehow that triggered a worse vote??
    What is their issue with the garage/parking...wouldn't this help take cars off the street?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsarstruck View Post
    No, but of course this ISN'T SLAPP, since there's no actual lawsuit.
    Which is why I said SLAPP tactics. Whether or not a lawsuit is filed is irrelevant, it works the same way. Threaten the person with legal action that they can't afford to defend, solely to scare her so she shuts up and ceases her opposition.

    Arctic covered it pretty well in his post above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    Haley hasn't said nearly as bad or patently false stuff as CCPB has. I think Haley's making false claims, but I wonder about their severity compared to the outlandish charges that come out of CCPB. I haven't talked to Ori about Haley until this morning, but I wonder if this "Nuclear Option" against NIMBYs would be used against Concerned Citizens of Point Breeze against some of their more outrageous claims.

    I think if you pull the trigger in any defamation suit, if your goal is to silence opposition and not defend yourself from defamation, all you will do is trigger the Streisand Effect and get more eyeballs you didn't want locked in on the dispute. If you're serious about making sure that truthfulness prevails and economic damage isn't a result of the claims because a broad audience takes the claims as gospel, then that's what defamation torts are for.

    The question that would have to be asked is: Do reasonable people believe what Haley says?

    It didn't appear that the room believed Haley when she was quizzing Ori at the RCO meeting. The voting turned out in favor of Ori. (But SPHINC is now overriding the voting and saying they're withdrawing their support)
    Well put. There are people out there who have been saying worse things about Ori, so it's surprising that this individual gets the hammer now. The only people that believe what she and others are saying are completely irrelevant to anyone with the capacity for rational thought, and are only becoming increasingly irrelevant as time goes on.

    I don't think there's much basis for libel in her statements quoted in the C&D. Destroying the character of the community is an opinion. Creating parking congestion is not an unreasonable prediction, though it is a silly concern, and yes development begets increased property values which indirectly raises property taxes, but again, not a reason to oppose development.

    The stuff about building his dream home and getting it for free are based in ignorance, and the rest of the statements about Ori's character are just opinions.

    If it were me, I'd wave her away like a gnat and go about my business, unless she started launching some patently false allegations that can't be attributed simply to a poor understanding of development, variances, and tax assessments.

    Trying to smack her down with legal threats is counterproductive from a PR perspective, especially when OCF has an online media presence with which to spread the truth.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    If it were me, I'd wave her away like a gnat and go about my business, unless she started launching some patently false allegations that can't be attributed simply to a poor understanding of development, variances, and tax assessments.

    Trying to smack her down with legal threats is counterproductive from a PR perspective, especially when OCF has an online media presence with which to spread the truth.
    To me, this is a good point. The one time I considered legal action against someone, a lawyer friend of mine said, "You have the legal grounds to do so, and would likely win. But in addition to being a lawyer, I'm your friend and, for what you want out of the lawsuit, it's just not worth it." In this case, there is risk that she becomes the "victim"...which could garner her sympathy to which she'd not otherwise be entitled if she were just left to her own devices. Personally, since she pretty much comes off like a total wingnut, I'd ust let her keep on being crazy until there is real libel/defamation.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnninStreet View Post
    Ori, have you considered starring in a reality TV show?
    Ha, I think I'd actually watch that.

  18. #58
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    She was in tears from a single letter? That alone says what kind of nutjob is up to no good here.

  19. #59
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    I'm in the ZBA right now. The whole gang is here and the room is packed and flowing out the hall.

    Heh my lawyer is also here representing a client.

  20. #60
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