Concerned Citizens Taking It to a Higher Level

**Jayfar** · 10-22-2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by seand

Also how does zoning make the city do reassessments?

Very much like how roof decks cause coronaries. If they tried to explain it to you, you still couldn't possibly begin to understand. It's an alternative reasoning process going on here.

**Ozymndius** · 10-22-2012, 11:32 AM

Just called the number on the flyer to get on the schedule to speak. Thanks CCPB for providing all of the information!

**devilspocket** · 10-22-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by seand

So all they have to do is register to be an RCO, have bylaws and a board, etc. whats the issue?

Is it that hard to run yourself like a reputable organization?

Also how does zoning make the city do reassessments?

The initial requirements for an RCO (which seem to have been waived for some political entities) said that the organization had to have been having public meetings with agendas and minutes kept for at least the last six months. They also had to have open elections and officers who resided within the organization's stated boundaries. I don't think CCPB could have met these requirements.

**seand** · 10-22-2012, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by devilspocket

The initial requirements for an RCO (which seem to have been waived for some political entities) said that the organization had to have been having public meetings with agendas and minutes kept for at least the last six months. They also had to have open elections and officers who resided within the organization's stated boundaries. I don't think CCPB could have met these requirements.

But if they wanted to influence zoning in a lasting way, it takes meetings and open elections to establish credibility. And the zoning process take more 6 months for any individual project often. Plus the new code has been in the works for much longer.

If they want to be a legitimate community organization, its time to step up and do it. Not just whine about having to prove you actually represent the community you claim to speak for in the manner that hundreds of other neighborhood groups already do.

**gijyun** · 10-22-2012, 11:56 AM

It sounds like CCPB are getting a taste of what actual accountability and transparency requires. It'll be interesting to see how they continue to respond.

**JakeL** · 10-22-2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Very much like how roof decks cause coronaries. If they tried to explain it to you, you still couldn't possibly begin to understand. It's an alternative reasoning process going on here.

Reminds me of an article in the NYTimes yesterday regarding partisan politics and policy awareness: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/op...iews.html?_r=0

Researchers have found that when they asked people to explain how a policy works, rather than why a policy should be supported, the rhetoric broke down and people on both sides became more moderate. I would appreciate a formal writeup on how the new zoning policies hinder neighborhood input, but alas, I doubt that will ever happen.

**Philly507** · 10-22-2012, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by ofeibush

I am not sure that CCPB is as much in the minority as I once thought. I hear so much chatter about how we are destroying the neighborhood. They have educated people rallying to their cause and our baristas at 18th and South have to deal with a few people complaining about the vacant lot in PB each day. It is depressing that people focus on the legalities of the lot and not the broken system that forced us to take action. Similarly with the coffee shop....educated people continue to argue that I forced a coffee shop on the community. WTF? Why do people not understand how insane that statement is? How does a place of business force itself on a community? I am convinced that for as crazy and racist as CCPB is, they are actually winning. Hell the Councilman and State Rep even marched with them and on the opposite side....the hundreds of neighbors that came to vote in support of our shop sadly don't come in. It makes me question my plan for the Munson Manor....do we all just support from afar? Not everyone gets their news online...if we are not on the ground telling the truth about what is really going on we are losing.

They are winning with boots on the ground and thousands of flyers.....either we are willing to fight for a better neighborhood by spending money and organizing our own marches and meetings or we are not.

Ori,

After reading your post I have a few questions;

First, I regards to the coffee shop. Did you do any type of research to see if the neighborhood (in that area) could support a coffee shop? It appears that there's not the demand for the coffee shop at this current time. Usually for a business to thrive the residential base has to be established first.

My second question is why not "adapt". You seem to focus only on vacant lots. Why not stick it to them and start buying existing homes and fixing them. I feel like that would be the best way to get around these people. I see so many existing houses being gutted and fixed. That alone will continue the trend of PB revival.

I think saying that they are "winning" is inaccurate. The city is changing and growing as a whole. I moved into a renovated existing two story home, 3 years ago. I moved here because its what I could afford. There are so many people in the same shoes that I was in, and will look to buy on this side of Broad. When I first moved here I use to have drug issues on my block, people outside all hours of the night. Then all those people suddenly stopped showing up one day. My point is that the neighborhood is changing and it can not be stopped. This small group knows it, and is making as much noise as they can, but eventually they'll just give up. It may not be anytime soon, but they're not winning bud.

**ahbinpa** · 10-22-2012, 10:51 PM

I didn't see the details posted, so here you go...

Councilwoman Blackwell introduced a resolution (#120638) calling for hearings on the RCO system. This hearing is scheduled for Monday, October 29th at 10 am in Room 400 City Hall. It would be helpful for persons who feel this new system will be beneficial to present their point of view at the hearings. Those who are interested in testifying can sign up in advance by contacting Christopher Riddick at christopher.riddick@phila.gov, or by calling 215-686-3418.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Ozymndius** · 10-23-2012, 02:12 PM

I spoke to Christopher, he took my information asked on what side of the issue I fell and asked me to forward a summary of my statement to him so he could distribute it prior to the meeting. He was very nice...didn't seem difficult to get on the schedule.

This will be the first time I speak at any kind of city council meeting...any suggestions?

**PBSusan** · 10-23-2012, 03:35 PM

Bring a flask?

**annie** · 10-23-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ozymndius

This will be the first time I speak at any kind of city council meeting...any suggestions?

It's not like SRC meetings where they strictly enforce the time limit but do try to stay in 3-4 minutes. They (and the other captive audience...other people testifying) would prefer if you come with something prepared rather than speaking extemporaneously by which I mean rambling. The testimony copies to the councilpeople aren't always distributed immediately so you might want to have extra copies in case one asks you for one afterwards.

Don't be surprised when a lady is allowed to testify about prayer in school seemingly at random. Don't be surprised when it takes a long time to testify because VIPs have been put on panels ahead of you. (Bring snacks/water and something to read) Don't be surprised if the council chamber is mostly empty by the time you speak and the councilpeople present may or may not be taking calls on their cells while you talk. Oh and thanks for your civic participation! Honestly, sometimes it really does make a difference even if the experience is exactly as messed up as you'd expect. Adam, am I missing anything?

**Jay from Philly** · 10-23-2012, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by ofeibush

I am not sure that CCPB is as much in the minority as I once thought. I hear so much chatter about how we are destroying the neighborhood. They have educated people rallying to their cause and our baristas at 18th and South have to deal with a few people complaining about the vacant lot in PB each day. It is depressing that people focus on the legalities of the lot and not the broken system that forced us to take action. Similarly with the coffee shop....educated people continue to argue that I forced a coffee shop on the community. WTF? Why do people not understand how insane that statement is? How does a place of business force itself on a community? I am convinced that for as crazy and racist as CCPB is, they are actually winning. Hell the Councilman and State Rep even marched with them and on the opposite side....the hundreds of neighbors that came to vote in support of our shop sadly don't come in. It makes me question my plan for the Munson Manor....do we all just support from afar? Not everyone gets their news online...if we are not on the ground telling the truth about what is really going on we are losing.

They are winning with boots on the ground and thousands of flyers.....either we are willing to fight for a better neighborhood by spending money and organizing our own marches and meetings or we are not.

I did come in this last Sunday and got some coffee.

**ArcticSplash** · 10-24-2012, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by annie

It's not like SRC meetings where they strictly enforce the time limit but do try to stay in 3-4 minutes. They (and the other captive audience...other people testifying) would prefer if you come with something prepared rather than speaking extemporaneously by which I mean rambling. The testimony copies to the councilpeople aren't always distributed immediately so you might want to have extra copies in case one asks you for one afterwards.

Don't be surprised when a lady is allowed to testify about prayer in school seemingly at random. Don't be surprised when it takes a long time to testify because VIPs have been put on panels ahead of you. (Bring snacks/water and something to read) Don't be surprised if the council chamber is mostly empty by the time you speak and the councilpeople present may or may not be taking calls on their cells while you talk. Oh and thanks for your civic participation! Honestly, sometimes it really does make a difference even if the experience is exactly as messed up as you'd expect. Adam, am I missing anything?

That about explains it. Granted, not every councilperson that is chair over a committee does stuff like that during Council Hearing time but I've been witness to it.

And for a hearing being called by Councilwoman Blackwell---well... just remember that you'll be on City Hall TV so there may be some serious people watching it, rather than the non-serious stuff going on in Room 400.

I usually prefer to do Council Hearings off the cuff but in this case, I'll just be reading a statement and walking out. I seriously, seriously doubt Jannie will be asking me any questions when I finish reading. Maybe one or two small questions from other council members but that's pushing it.

Since Jannie is questioning the viability of RCOs here, do expect to see people from PCPC, L&I and a few civic heads in the room.

**bootsywannabe** · 10-24-2012, 02:48 PM

I've been seeing a lot of ladies with flyers on 16th St. lately - funny, they never ask me to sign, just students mainly. The flyer ladies all seem to be on real close terms with the drug family at Catharine St. This Monday the Black Israelites were down doing their racist schpiel, I believe in support of the flier etc. The Black Israelites come down and scream and yell about how white people are the devil with some regularity, usually while hanging out with the drug family in the 1500 block of Catharine St.

It would be nice to see this flyer movement documented as associating with the Black Israelites.

Hebrew Israelites In Philly: Openly teach,"hate the White Devil's". The Isrealite School of U.P.K. - YouTube

**Ozymndius** · 10-28-2012, 06:51 PM

The RCO meeting has been cancelled tomorrow due to Frankenstorm Sandy...no reschedule date as of yet.

**Ozymndius** · 11-12-2012, 09:25 AM

The meeting has been rescheduled to this Friday at 10am...which unfortunately I can't make. You can e-mail (christopher.riddick@phila.gov) or call 215-686-3418 Chris at councilwoman Blackwell's office if you are interested in speaking.

**annie** · 11-12-2012, 10:33 AM

Fyi, City Hall is closed today for the holiday and I've been emailing with Riddick trying to register but it seems like you have to call it in.

**bootsywannabe** · 11-12-2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by annie

Fyi, City Hall is closed today for the holiday and I've been emailing with Riddick trying to register but it seems like you have to call it in.

kinda funny how City and School District employees get EVERY FREAKIN HOLLIDAY KNOWN TO MAN EVER off work.

seriously, who gets BOTH Columbus Day and Veterans Day off anymore? Not even the Feds get them both.

our tax dollars at work

**seand** · 11-12-2012, 04:40 PM

I was flabbergasted when I first came to Philly and heard that people do Columbus Day here. Never got it. He was born Genoa but he was ethnically Jewish (and marginalized as a result in Italy) and sailed for Spain. He writings are all in Portugese or Spanish and there is no indication he ever was literate in the Genovese dialect of Italian. Its an ethnic holiday for guy who was neither particularly Italian (more trans European merchant class), nor the first European here and who also did some awful, awful things to the native Taino Carribean islanders. He also denied he had arrived at a new continent his entire life, insisting they were "almost" to Asia. As governor of the "Indies" in the current Domincan Republic he was so wretchedly barbaric in his command that his own 3 brothers urged the Spanish authorities arrest him to stop the attrocities, which they eventually did.

I'd way rather celebrate Guglielmo Marconi Day.

**Sharkfood** · 11-12-2012, 05:00 PM

There were no RCO's under the old zoning code and I think the idea of introducing them was well-intentioned but misplaced. I can understand where Jannie is coming from. In the poorer neighborhoods, the local activists really don't have the sophistication to create an RCO. In some neighborhoods, there is an outside organization like APM or Norris Square Civic to run zoning meetings, but in others (e.g. Strawberry Mansion, Cobbs Creek), there is very little civic structure. The RCO concept functions well in the established neighborhoods, but I'm afraid it's only going to create more problems and impede development in marginal locations.