Point Breeze, 20th and Wharton, is it wise to buy a new construction home here?

[dogoagogo]

Just drove by again, and if it's the house I think it is, I'm not too thrilled about the space around it. THAT is where trouble could hide. If it's attached and I'm mistaken, then never mind. If there is space on either side, you'd probably want to light it up.

As for summer vs winter - I agree that I feel much safer in winter than summertime driving through the hood. I've been driving through various parts of PB for more than a few years now, and in winter no one's out. I have only been nervous in the warmer months, especially early summer. By now it feels less amp-ey.

I think the delayed development of Northern Liberties was more due to its lack of walkability to center city, where PB has that in its favor, much like SWCC. I think in 5 years it will be similar to the lower part of SWCC, mixed with some "troubles" but generally nothing crazy. In 10, coffee shops on every corner!

But I am optimistic, and hopeful it will develop. I'm not exactly 100% objective, as I have a business near the neighborhood and would love to see this happen in time for my eventual retirement in 10-15 years.

[2happy4u]

Let somebody be honest ....keep looking. It is one of the worse areas in South Philly if not the worse. They don't even welcome new construction in their "HOOD"

[rccollins]

just put an offer in for the place earlier today HA

good feedback thank you to everyone for the insight -its a complicated scene moving to this spot in point breeze, but Im hoping we get the place and things work out in the long run. *I should mention I am a white boy with a foreign french haitian wife, i expect a certain level of resentment from the american black community no matter what, especially with the anti development turmoil in point breeze. *We explored all around the area again today, you can really see that wharton is a real borderline for new construction in point breeze as of this day. *anything south of that forget it- I know the place we are interested in is on the bleeding edge of this development, its a troublesome decision/

There is a backup option for us in the exact same price range on 17th and federal- it is a way less luxurious option by the same builder, you can really tell the difference in price for what you get even just 3 blocks away it makes a huge difference in the quality of the units on the block. *to be clear the place we are interested in is in the low 300k range near 20th and wharton, also its a corner unit so keep that in mind

[sharkey]

Go to the closest Chinese takeout restaurant. The owner will know the neighborhood. Is he behind 3" of bulletproof glass? Trust his judgement.

[LouPerseghin]

Good luck on the offer. My wife and I live at 19th & Manton and feel relatively safe on our block. Relatively.

You get to know the streets, and what the best way in and out of the neighborhood is. For me, Wharton was the line where we stopped looking because any further South is just a mess. People say the same thing about Washington, and formerly Christian. I remember walking to Sidecar when we lived at 16th & Fitzwater in 2006 and it felt similar to going to Sardine now-ish.

My opinion is that buying a new construction in a neighborhood like Point Breeze means that you are more visible, which in an area that has gentrification tension can be difficult to deal with. My experience has been that being present on your block, saying hi to neighbors in a normal way (ie not going door to door to introduce yourself) and not being obnoxious (no raging parties on the roof deck) goes a long way toward becoming part of the community rather than someone who simply lives on the block.

Good luck with the offer. And for what it's worth, 17th & Federal is a decent enough area if it doesn't work out and you're looking in Point Breeze anyway.

[JakeL]

Northern Liberites was rundown, but it was never a dangerous 'hood like Point Breeze. Gentrification can stall out (as it did for a long time in N.L.) and if it does you will be left in the wilderness. Follow the threads here about what OCF Development is going through with the locals in P.B.; you will be resented by your neighbors rather than welcomed.

I live at 16th and Wharton and have been welcomed with open arms by my neighbors. Ori's experience has been with a handful of people who live (and don't live) in the neighborhood. The neighbors on my block are great and owning a home is different than being a developer. IMHO, being a neighbor brings out the best of neighborliness (if that's a word).

[palvar]

I live at 16th and Point Breeze and have been welcomed with open arms by my neighbors.

Does this intersection even exist?

[Eastcoast]

Does this intersection even exist?

16th and Point Breeze?

If my calculations are correct that would be the intersection of 16th Street and Waverly St...total ghetto!

[JakeL]

Does this intersection even exist?

Whooops, 16th and Wharton. Shows how much I know where I live!

[gijyun]

Northern Liberites was rundown, but it was never a dangerous 'hood like Point Breeze. Gentrification can stall out (as it did for a long time in N.L.) and if it does you will be left in the wilderness. Follow the threads here about what OCF Development is going through with the locals in P.B.; you will be resented by your neighbors rather than welcomed.

This is so untrue it's entertaining.

[Porterpotty8]

Northern Liberites was rundown, but it was never a dangerous 'hood like Point Breeze. Gentrification can stall out (as it did for a long time in N.L.) and if it does you will be left in the wilderness. Follow the threads here about what OCF Development is going through with the locals in P.B.; you will be resented by your neighbors rather than welcomed.

Lived here 5 years now. Neighbors have all been amazing. Drink beers together, clean the streets, etc. it's been a great experience. Don't generalize for all of us.

[Ozymndius]

Follow the threads here about what OCF Development is going through with the locals in P.B.; you will be resented by your neighbors rather than welcomed.

I don't agree with this statement. Yes, there is a group of crazies who are vocal and cause all kinds of silliness. But I moved onto my block 2.5 years ago. I'm white and built a brand new three-story house with a roof deck (1600 block of Manton). The majority of my neighbors are great. We wave hi to each other, chat about the neighborhood, get each other packages when someone isn't home, look out for each other and our block in general. Is it perfect...by no mean, there is a house on our block who I know sells drugs and we've had serious violence within a block or two but my block itself is pretty darn quiet.

To the OP...best of luck with your offer.

[the mule]

A small group of vocal crazies has given Point Breeze a bad rap as far as neighbors are concerned, but you shouldn't believe that that reflects on anything more than a small minority of neighbors. There are plenty of great people there who welcome the development and have waited a long time to see the blight and crime disappear. There are also lousy neighbors but you'll find that in many other city neighborhoods.

As far as 20th and Wharton is concerned, I hate to throw cold water on you after you've already put in an offer, but I would never live at that intersection. The development farther down 20th st. on the 1400 and 1500 blocks has really transformed that area for the better over the past year, but the block bordered by 20th and 21st between Wharton and Reed is a complete wasteland. There are only 2 houses still standing on the 1300 block of Capitol st. and the City owns most of the rest. The privately owned houses still standing on 2000 Reed are worth less than the liens on them, so they're not going anywhere until they're sent to sheriff's sale. In total there are over 50 vacant parcels just on that square block.

That pocket there is going to be tough for a long time unless a developer acquires the land from the city and does something spectacular with it but it's more likely to be given away for an affordable housing development. The best thing to happen to the 2000 block of Reed recently is the expansion of the funeral home, but the rest of the block is still dilapidated. It doesn't help that there aren't any new developments on the avenue, so things tend to fall off as you go west.

There is no shortage of new construction houses being built in Point Breeze, and for 300k you can easily find a great house in a much more stable and further developed part of the neighborhood. 17th and Federal is a much better location in the heart of the development activity in PB.

If you end up living there then good luck, just be careful walking south on 20th at night. I hope you end up being one of the positive agents for change that makes me look like an idiot pessimist a few years from now. I was surprised when the new house on the 2000 block of Wharton went up in the past year, and I can just hope I'll be surprised by a few others soon.

[bbeach]

Impressive New Duplexes Proposed at 20th and Wharton | NakedPhilly

[bbeach]

A small group of vocal crazies has given Point Breeze a bad rap as far as neighbors are concerned, but you shouldn't believe that that reflects on anything more than a small minority of neighbors. There are plenty of great people there who welcome the development and have waited a long time to see the blight and crime disappear. There are also lousy neighbors but you'll find that in many other city neighborhoods.

As far as 20th and Wharton is concerned, I hate to throw cold water on you after you've already put in an offer, but I would never live at that intersection. The development farther down 20th st. on the 1400 and 1500 blocks has really transformed that area for the better over the past year, but the block bordered by 20th and 21st between Wharton and Reed is a complete wasteland. There are only 2 houses still standing on the 1300 block of Capitol st. and the City owns most of the rest. The privately owned houses still standing on 2000 Reed are worth less than the liens on them, so they're not going anywhere until they're sent to sheriff's sale. In total there are over 50 vacant parcels just on that square block.

That pocket there is going to be tough for a long time unless a developer acquires the land from the city and does something spectacular with it but it's more likely to be given away for an affordable housing development. The best thing to happen to the 2000 block of Reed recently is the expansion of the funeral home, but the rest of the block is still dilapidated. It doesn't help that there aren't any new developments on the avenue, so things tend to fall off as you go west.

There is no shortage of new construction houses being built in Point Breeze, and for 300k you can easily find a great house in a much more stable and further developed part of the neighborhood. 17th and Federal is a much better location in the heart of the development activity in PB.

If you end up living there then good luck, just be careful walking south on 20th at night. I hope you end up being one of the positive agents for change that makes me look like an idiot pessimist a few years from now. I was surprised when the new house on the 2000 block of Wharton went up in the past year, and I can just hope I'll be surprised by a few others soon.

You might be an "idiot pessimist" sooner than you think ;-) Development is coming all over that area.

Impressive New Duplexes Proposed at 20th and Wharton | NakedPhilly

[the mule]

You might be an "idiot pessimist" sooner than you think ;-) Development is coming all over that area.

Impressive New Duplexes Proposed at 20th and Wharton | NakedPhilly

Ha, that's the first thing I thought when I saw that article. Even better yet it's a modern design that finally offers some variety compared to the bulk of development in the area. There are at least a dozen new homes on 20th street between Federal and Tasker that went up in just the past year with only more to come. A year ago it was a pretty godforsaken stretch. It still has a long way to go but the difference is amazing.

[PBSusan]

I'm late to this party, as i've been away, but wanted to chime in - I've been in Point Breeze over three years, and the rate at which new construction is moving south is shocking. On my block alone since I moved in, 10 new houses have gone up. TEN! For the most part, you will be welcomed by the neighbors. This anti-gentrification sh!* you read about is a small, vocal few, and many of them don't even live here. Most of the neighbors don't care if you're white and bought a new house. They are happy to have a neighbor that doesn't throw trash in the street and shoot people. I'm not all the way down to Wharton, but from what I can see, and from what I read, it's headed that way in a hurry. I can't speak to what kind of a profit you'll make on your investment, but I can tell you that, by and large, I feel safe walking in my neighborhood at night. I've found that the sketchiest parts are from 17th to Broad. Just my two cents. My best to you.

[bbeach]

Ha, that's the first thing I thought when I saw that article. Even better yet it's a modern design that finally offers some variety compared to the bulk of development in the area. There are at least a dozen new homes on 20th street between Federal and Tasker that went up in just the past year with only more to come. A year ago it was a pretty godforsaken stretch. It still has a long way to go but the difference is amazing.

I agree it's amazing and great to see! And don't feel to bad :-) I'm no fortune-teller either, if so we would be rich! :-)