Cyclists finally held accountable?

**kundabuffer** · 07-31-2012, 09:44 AM

It sounds too good to be true:

Passyunk Square Civic Association » 3rd District Bicycle Enforcement Notification and Warning Notice

**gijyun** · 07-31-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by kundabuffer

It sounds too good to be true:

Passyunk Square Civic Association » 3rd District Bicycle Enforcement Notification and Warning Notice

Cyclist here. I never ride on sidewalks, always stay to your right, I stop (well, yield) at all intersections, lights, and crosswalks, and I always wear a helmet and closed-toed shoes while riding. I think this is a fair initiative, though I'll point out it looks like they're using "CAN" rather than "WILL," so it's still up to the officer's discretion.

I realize this is more pointed towards unsafe and abusive cyclists, but as a driver AND cyclist, I can assure you that I have experienced more road rage and dangerous behaviors from drivers and not unsafe cyclists.

edit: spelling

**BarryG** · 07-31-2012, 10:01 AM

I don't think I have EVER seen a bike cop riding legally. They are always riding on the sidewalk and the wrong way. I just saw it again this morning.

Anyway they supposedly cracked down in Center City on illegal cycling last year but I think that surge lasted only a couple days.

**darthsinatra** · 07-31-2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by gijyun

I have experience more road rage and dangerous behaviors from drivers and not unsafe cyclists.

This!

**John Goodman** · 07-31-2012, 10:42 AM

cyclists will never be held to the law... just get over it people

our cops aren't gonna bother

**Litter Box** · 07-31-2012, 11:01 AM

Drivers remember that you can get a ticket if you pass a cyclist closer than three (3) feet.

**gijyun** · 07-31-2012, 11:40 AM

Also, I just want to add that I'm sure as a driver you have had several negative experiences with cyclists not following the common rules of the road, but compare that to the number of times you've seen outrageous driving habits of people in the area.

**mixiboi** · 07-31-2012, 11:43 AM

So cyclists get a free pass to do whatever they want..got it....

**JakeL** · 07-31-2012, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Litter Box

Drivers remember that you can get a ticket if you pass a cyclist closer than three (3) feet.

4 feet, but who's counting? ;-)

Given this requirement, basically every single car in South Philly that passes a bicycle is breaking the law. I can't think of many roadways that offer that wide of a space. We should attach 4 foot sticks to the side of our bikes to help ensure safe passage :-)

To those motorists that are upset about me breaking the laws, such as treatig stops as yields, I will gladly follow the laws for you. I wil take the lane, come to a complete stop, and look both ways before proceeding. When I do this and obey the laws, I would ask that you do not call me a c***ksucker or threaten to 'Punch my face in,' as has happened all the other times I have attempted to obey the law and be above reproach.

**gijyun** · 07-31-2012, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

So cyclists get a free pass to do whatever they want..got it....

I have several friends who have been ticketed while cycling, many of which have been taken to court and lost. Mind you, they are being ticketed by bike cops who openly and willing ignore common road rules.

**gijyun** · 07-31-2012, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by JakeL

To those motorists that are upset about me breaking the laws, such as treatig stops as yields, I will gladly follow the laws for you. I wil take the lane, come to a complete stop, and look both ways before proceeding. When I do this and obey the laws, I would ask that you do not call me a c***ksucker or threaten to 'Punch my face in,' as has happened all the other times I have attempted to obey the law and be above reproach.

I wish more people understood this. Cyclists are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Best for drivers to understand that it's BETTER for everyone for cyclists to yield at stop signs or intersections - we get out of your way faster!! I can't count how many times I've had expletives screeched at me for simply wanting to get out of the driver's way - fine; I'll just ride in the middle of the street, force you to drive at <15 MPH, and take my time accelerating at all stops.

**mgreenbe** · 07-31-2012, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by gijyun

I wish more people understood this. Cyclists are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Best for drivers to understand that it's BETTER for everyone for cyclists to yield at stop signs or intersections - we get out of your way faster!! I can't count how many times I've had expletives screeched at me for simply wanting to get out of the driver's way - fine; I'll just ride in the middle of the street, force you to drive at <15 MPH, and take my time accelerating at all stops.

This. I'd love it if every lane had sharrows on it---though it's a shame that most drivers don't seem to know what they mean.

I'm all for ticketing cyclists who salmon and ride on the sidewalk---salmoners make it much harder for me to bike legally. Yet people often forget that there's a fundamental power imbalance between cars and bicycles. One stray move from a car and a cyclist or pedestrian is grievously injured; not so the other way round. "Equal" treatment is a little silly, since cars and bikes don't need equal protection. Bicycles need more protection than cars, because they're more vulnerable---not to mention, less dangerous to others.

**McPhilly** · 07-31-2012, 12:45 PM

What does salmon mean in this issue? Not familiar with it.

**darthsinatra** · 07-31-2012, 12:49 PM

There's only one thing for it: U-Lock Justice.

**BeckyJ** · 07-31-2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Litter Box

Drivers remember that you can get a ticket if you pass a cyclist closer than three (3) feet.

But if a cyclist passes within an inch of me while I'm walking on the sidewalk, I get yelled at by said cyclist for....walking on the sidewalk.

**Litter Box** · 07-31-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by BeckyJ

But if a cyclist passes within an inch of me while I'm walking on the sidewalk, I get yelled at by said cyclist for....walking on the sidewalk.

That cyclist is wrong but picture a two ton car brushing your arm at 30 mph.

**BeckyJ** · 07-31-2012, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Litter Box

That cyclist is wrong but picture a two ton car brushing your arm at 30 mph.

Agreed, and I would never ride a bike in this city. But just pointing out that cyclists are not always the maligned party here, and they do tend to get snarky & arrogant with regards to pedestrians.

**gijyun** · 07-31-2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by BeckyJ

But if a cyclist passes within an inch of me while I'm walking on the sidewalk, I get yelled at by said cyclist for....walking on the sidewalk.

Sidewalks are for walking. Period. Riding on the sidewalks is a HUGE issue, especially in Philadelphia where the walkways and curbs are, for whatever reason, narrower than in other cities like this. Anecdotally, I notice that food delivery riders are major violators of this. Ideally, there would be some kind of social marketing campaign targeting restaurants that offer delivery for this, perhaps co-sponsored by L&I.

**concourse** · 07-31-2012, 01:30 PM

Passyunk Square should make it clear that a person under 12 must wear a helmet.

Originally Posted by McPhilly

What does salmon mean in this issue? Not familiar with it.

It means ride the wrong way on a street--like salmon going upstream.

Originally Posted by mixiboi

So cyclists get a free pass to do whatever they want..got it....

It's an enforcement problem and the same reason most drivers who speed, don't fully stop at stop signs, turn on red illegally, etc. don't get tickets.

Originally Posted by JakeL

Given this requirement, basically every single car in South Philly that passes a bicycle is breaking the law. I can't think of many roadways that offer that wide of a space. We should attach 4 foot sticks to the side of our bikes to help ensure safe passage :-)

To those motorists that are upset about me breaking the laws, such as treatig stops as yields, I will gladly follow the laws for you. I wil take the lane, come to a complete stop, and look both ways before proceeding. When I do this and obey the laws, I would ask that you do not call me a c***ksucker or threaten to 'Punch my face in,' as has happened all the other times I have attempted to obey the law and be above reproach.

On one level I agree with you. Pretty much all of my law breaking as a cyclists (which comes down to rolling stops, and jumping a green after opposing traffic has turned red) are to help keep me at speed with traffic. I do think most people who complain about "those cyclists" are just unable to properly target their anger. I'd like to think that neither the cops nor drivers really have a problem with me cycling in a way that helps them. I might be wrong since the vast majority of times I'm yelled at when I'm cycling is when I'm biking 100% legally and the driver wants to gun his engine so he can rear end the car stopped at the light in front of us and doesn't like that he will be forced to make it to the red light going 10mph instead of going 30mph. That being said, I hope the police will target the cyclists who just run red lights without looking and are a danger to pedestrians and other cyclists. I'm sure every cyclist has a story of another cyclist riding dangerously and almost hitting them.

**rks** · 07-31-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by concourse

On one level I agree with you. Pretty much all of my law breaking as a cyclists (which comes down to rolling stops, and jumping a green after opposing traffic has turned red) are to help keep me at speed with traffic. I do think most people who complain about "those cyclists" are just unable to properly target their anger. I'd like to think that neither the cops nor drivers really have a problem with me cycling in a way that helps them. I might be wrong since the vast majority of times I'm yelled at when I'm cycling is when I'm biking 100% legally and the driver wants to gun his engine so he can rear end the car stopped at the light in front of us and doesn't like that he will be forced to make it to the red light going 10mph instead of going 30mph. That being said, I hope the police will target the cyclists who just run red lights without looking and are a danger to pedestrians and other cyclists. I'm sure every cyclist has a story of another cyclist riding dangerously and almost hitting them.

+1

As a year-round, daily bike commuter from South Philly to Center City I agree 100%.

I also find that as the weather gets warmer - the stupidity level of some cyclists seems to increase - it seems people forget how to ride their bikes in the winter.