PPA - How would you interpret this sign?

[jester]

Ugh. This thread gets me heated just thinking about the PPA. I understand the need for the agency, but their method of operation is absolutely bush league, especially for a city of this size. They remind me of baseball umpires who act as though they're the most important part of the game.

[the mule]

Our "bus loading zone" / "no parking" sign was about 40 or so feet from the crosswalk, so we removed it. And every time they put it back up we remove it. I understand why its there, but would you honestly expect a Septa bus to pull over to let off passengers everytime? It also takes up 3 spots, so yeah we remove it.

Actually I do expect Septa buses to pull over to let off passengers in the bus zones they're given. The problem is they they almost never do it, even if there is ample room.

[luchobucho]

Actually I do expect Septa buses to pull over to let off passengers in the bus zones they're given. The problem is they they almost never do it, even if there is ample room.

I hate getting out of the rear door and finding a car parked there. Its dangerous and inconsiderate.

ugh.

[BarryG]

I hate getting out of the rear door and finding a car parked there. Its dangerous and inconsiderate.

ugh.

There are a lot of bus stop corners without the bus zone parking restriction... I thought this was intentional to preserve parking.

[the mule]

Somehow this thread has combined the two elements of living in Philly that most consistently draw my ire: PPA absurdity and reckless at worst, inconsiderate at best Septa bus driver etiquette.

[Eames]

That's how I see it as well, of course we've all had to deal with some funky PPA regulations. To me it just seems as if its a simple area to park in. It is 3 hour parking with meters and on top of that, the particular spot is a loading zone during specific hours only. Outside of that time it is unregulated. The PPA officer spoke to me like I was a dunce and kept repeating, "can't you see it says passenger loading zone only."

In the end the man was doing his job but hes a dick.

PPA guy's logic is flawed from the beginning. The sign is there to allow for the unloading and loading of passengers. Passengers can get into and out of both cars and trucks. "Passengers" is the operative word, no where does the sign refer to vehicle type. He was not doing his job, he was adding his personal interpretation (as illogical as it may be) to a sign that is pretty clear in its intent. I say fight the ticket. You can do it on line now.

[Digthepast]

I'm convinced that the confusing signs that have sprung up lately have more to do with "revenue enhancement" than with anything else.

Fighting anything with PPA can be lengthy and time-consuming. We've been going around with them for months over a ticket issued while we were in religious services, with a valid placard on the dashboard. The city agrees that we were legitimately parked, and has written us a letter to that effect, but the parking court seems unwilling to give it up (or to explain the basis for issuing the ticket in the first place). Good luck!

[SouthStMan]

Our "bus loading zone" / "no parking" sign was about 40 or so feet from the crosswalk, so we removed it. And every time they put it back up we remove it. I understand why its there, but would you honestly expect a Septa bus to pull over to let off passengers everytime? It also takes up 3 spots, so yeah we remove it.

I agree with you completely - but just wanted to point out that the reason the 'bus loading zones' were created and implemented, was part of the ADA overhauls ... the bus needs to be able to pull curbside if it has to pick up/drop off a passenger in a wheelchair.

[Digthepast]

I agree with you completely - but just wanted to point out that the reason the 'bus loading zones' were created and implemented, was part of the ADA overhauls ... the bus needs to be able to pull curbside if it has to pick up/drop off a passenger in a wheelchair.

Yeah, but it's SO annoying to be westbound on City Avenue, where Lower Merion installed pull-outs for bus stops, only to find the bus drivers not using them, and stopping in the travel lane instead!

[gunsnrosesmz]

I agree with you completely - but just wanted to point out that the reason the 'bus loading zones' were created and implemented, was part of the ADA overhauls ... the bus needs to be able to pull curbside if it has to pick up/drop off a passenger in a wheelchair.

I don't find fault in the idea behind it, but in this area with a bus stop on every corner as opposed to say every couple of blocks, parking would be even more limited than it is now.

[SouthStMan]

Yeah, but it's SO annoying to be westbound on City Avenue, where Lower Merion installed pull-outs for bus stops, only to find the bus drivers not using them, and stopping in the travel lane instead!

Well, that's a bit different than the original situation in South Philly; most streets have just one lane, thus the 'bus zone' is designed so the bus can get to the curb if a passenger has to use the ramp...

[SouthStMan]

I don't find fault in the idea behind it, but in this area with a bus stop on every corner as opposed to say every couple of blocks, parking would be even more limited than it is now.

Agreed - they could limit certain blocks to be accessible for disabled and others not - but I think that would affect the federal funding they get from ADA ...

[thegreattwizz]

Did anyone hear Good Day this morning and new restrictions on the PPA?

A ticket will be tossed if any of the following occur:

Not signed by issuing officer
Must specify EXACT location of vehicle; just saying '200 block South 3rd' isn't valid

Among other things, if the ticket is upheld, a written justification must accompany the decision.

[Marc]

Must specify EXACT location of vehicle; just saying '200 block South 3rd' isn't valid

I wonder how/if this is going to impact unmetered time restricted violations. My understanding is that simply moving your vehicle up and down the block--space available, of course--is insufficient to "reset" the time restriction.

[thegreattwizz]

I wonder how/if this is going to impact unmetered time restricted violations. My understanding is that simply moving your vehicle up and down the block--space available, of course--is insufficient to "reset" the time restriction.

As am I. My fianceé woke up to a ticket today, stating she was parked in a 'no parking anytime' zone, timed at 20 minutes, and written at 2am. She was very clearly in a parking spot and within the lines (happens to be in between curb cuts for garages), and the ticket simply says '700 Block South Front', which is actually like 9 blocks long. More PPA bullcrap.

[thegreattwizz]

here's the link:

Court serves justice on Parking Authority

[Digthepast]

here's the link:

Court serves justice on Parking Authority

Wow...this could SERIOUSLY affect out ongoing case!

Another thing that winds me up is the number of potential spaces that for reasons unclear are marked for no parking.
For example, at every intersection of two one-way streets, there are four corners. At two of these corners there are turning radius considerations, where cars are turning from one street to the other. A third corner has visibility concerns, because traffic on each street should be able to see traffic on the other. But at the fourth corner, there is no reason why parking cannot extend to 6 feet from the crosswalk, but often there are at least 2 wasted spaces,

There needs to be some sanity in the way these decisions are made. Another example is the constant erosion of in-zone parking spaces. For some reason these disappear whenever kiosk parking is installed.

[Gio7707]

Did anyone hear Good Day this morning and new restrictions on the PPA?

A ticket will be tossed if any of the following occur:

Not signed by issuing officer
Must specify EXACT location of vehicle; just saying '200 block South 3rd' isn't valid

Among other things, if the ticket is upheld, a written justification must accompany the decision.

always fight it :

Part 1

says that we're allowed, when appealing a parking ticket, to cross-examine the enforcement agent who wrote it (if we give enough notice of our request). Not only must the BAA let us know, before the hearing, that we have this right, but the bureau must "initiate procedures" that will accommodate it.

I don't know about you, but if I were a PPA ticket writer prone to writing iffy tickets, I'd be scared straight if I thought a ticket recipient would question me under oath.

Part 2

requires the BAA hearing examiner to dismiss a parking ticket if the violation doesn't identify the precise location of the vehicle. It won't be acceptable, in other words, for a ticket writer to vaguely note, say, "the 600 block of N. 22nd St.," since that block contains both open and restricted parking spaces.

So the benefit of the doubt won't automatically go to the ticket writer if he or she has been obtuse about where the violation occurred.

Part 3

requires ticket writers to sign the tickets they generate, to "affirm the truth of the facts." If they aren't signed, the violations won't be sustained.

Part 4

is my favorite. If a BAA hearing examiner upholds a ticket, he or she must detail, in writing and by the end of the hearing, the reasons for it.