Considering move from Cincinnati to South Philly

**WillABro** · 07-02-2012, 08:42 PM

Hi. I am considering moving from Cincy to South Philly. I am married with a 5 year old son. Looking for a family neighborhood with walkable amenities. Any advice appreciated.

**BarryG** · 07-02-2012, 11:17 PM

Budget? Are you planning on public school? Why did you pick South Philly already?

**WillABro** · 07-03-2012, 07:29 AM

Well, me and the Mrs. prefer urban living and from what I can tell, South Philly offers more in amenities than West and North Philly. We are looking for a family oriented neighborhood with kids, close to SEPTA, parks, close to restaurants and bars. Budget is definitely on the lower end of the spectrum at this stage. We are interested in renting at this stage until we can move there and get more established. We run two small businesses. We sell porcelain signs and do freelance copy-editing and proofreading.

Suburbs are out of the question. We will likely use private schools for our son.

**BarryG** · 07-03-2012, 07:44 AM

South Philly is great. You would probably like Bella Vista, Hawthorne, Passyunk Square and East Passyunk Crossing... basically anywhere in the bounds of South St, 6th St, Snyder Ave, and Broad St... but what is lower end of the spectrum for budget? It makes a huge difference. How big of a place do you think you need? Do you want to squeeze into a 2br apt or do you want to rent a row home?

**tsarstruck** · 07-03-2012, 09:28 AM

BarryG is right on. I made a map for a friend looking to rent for the first time in South Philly, focusing solely on Passyunk Square and East Passyunk Crossing, the two neighborhoods I think are A) with bias, the best in the city and B) without bias, a legitimate argument for most bang for you buck. Before anybody else flips out, I made the map specifically for a newcomer to the city, so I kept out out areas enduring growing pains, that I might be scruffy even if they're safe and/or wonderful, and Pennsport because well, sorry. So obviously, big caveat: there are lovely places to live that are just outside this map. Some of the might be cheaper. But as an out-of-towner, I'd rather spend a bit more on rent my first year as I acclimate.

The blue is the area I'd recommend: almost every block in it are pretty great. Purple is the "catchment" for Andrew Jackson School District, which is an up and coming, but very well might not be there yet. It's at least worth thinking about. Green are blocks that are particularly lovely. Red is the circle of hell that surrounds the tourist hell of Pat's and Geno's.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...11173,0.022724

**McPhilly** · 07-03-2012, 09:29 AM

See this thread within South Philly section of P.S., and others on same topic

Nice areas/streets to live?

**BarryG** · 07-03-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by tsarstruck

BarryG is right on. I made a map for a friend looking to rent for the first time in South Philly, focusing solely on Passyunk Square and East Passyunk Crossing, the two neighborhoods I think are A) with bias, the best in the city and B) without bias, a legitimate argument for most bang for you buck. Before anybody else flips out, I made the map specifically for a newcomer to the city, so I kept out out areas enduring growing pains, that I might be scruffy even if they're safe and/or wonderful, and Pennsport because well, sorry. So obviously, big caveat: there are lovely places to live that are just outside this map. Some of the might be cheaper. But as an out-of-towner, I'd rather spend a bit more on rent my first year as I acclimate.

The blue is the area I'd recommend: almost every block in it are pretty great. Purple is the "catchment" for Andrew Jackson School District, which is an up and coming, but very well might not be there yet. It's at least worth thinking about. Green are blocks that are particularly lovely. Red is the circle of hell that surrounds the tourist hell of Pat's and Geno's.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...11173,0.022724

Nice map, though I was say it's a little too conservative. It's about one block short on the east and south sides. That said, if OP wants a good place for a family, you can get an awesome rowhome in a very nice and safe area for well less than $2,000 in that zone and be close to the subway and great amenities.

**tsarstruck** · 07-03-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by BarryG

Nice map, though I was say it's a little too conservative. It's about one block short on the east and south sides. That said, if OP wants a good place for a family, you can get an awesome rowhome in a very nice and safe area for well less than $2,000 in that zone and be close to the subway and great amenities.

I don't disagree. I aimed to be conservative: I'd rather have my friend spend a slight amount more and have a slightly higher quality of life in his first year of Philly. But yeah, I agree: it's probably more conservative than it needs to be. OP, I'd move the southern border to McKean at least.

**WillABro** · 07-04-2012, 10:05 AM

Thanks for the replies and useful information!

Ideally, I would like to get a place (row house is fine) for around $1200 or less. I am an ex-New Yorker, have lived in LA, and many other places around the country. I don't want to live in a bad area but am alright with a little grit if the area is up and coming and reasonably safe for my wife and son. We live just outside of downtown Cincinnati at the moment and are used to city life, higher crime rates, etc. We freelance copy edit/proofread and sell porcelain metal reproduction signs. Though, ideally one of will transition into a 9to5 gig after we get there. How is Philly for publishing related work? O.k., not to bombard you guys with too much info.

**tsarstruck** · 07-04-2012, 12:38 PM

$1200 is do-able, although probably at the very low end for the area. Bella Vista is almost definitely out in that range. A quick scan of Craigslist for two bedrooms with a max of $1300 (to give you some idea of range) gives you places like this:

9/01: Lovely E. Passyunk House 2-3 BR
Spacious 2nd Floor Apartment (Close to Passyunk Ave)
Newly renovated 2 bed room apartment
Fantastic Location
Small Single Family Rowhome in Passyunk Square
Available 8/1, Bi-Level, Roof, Recently Renovated, Great Location!

**five apples** · 07-04-2012, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by WillABro

Thanks for the replies and useful information!

Ideally, I would like to get a place (row house is fine) for around $1200 or less. I am an ex-New Yorker, have lived in LA, and many other places around the country. I don't want to live in a bad area but am alright with a little grit if the area is up and coming and reasonably safe for my wife and son. We live just outside of downtown Cincinnati at the moment and are used to city life, higher crime rates, etc. We freelance copy edit/proofread and sell porcelain metal reproduction signs. Though, ideally one of will transition into a 9to5 gig after we get there. How is Philly for publishing related work? O.k., not to bombard you guys with too much info.

With a little due diligence you should be able to find an area for that amount in the area that Tsarstruck laid out.

I live in Passyunk Square and I do enjoy living here. It is pretty safe, really if you aren't out at 2 in the morning you will be fine. Are you at all concerned about schooling?

There is some publishing in Philly, once upon a time there was a lot, but that has changed.

**BarryG** · 07-04-2012, 12:47 PM

At $1200, you may want to expand your search south of Snyder Ave to the area bounded by Snyder, 11th St, and West Moyamensing (east of 11th the blocks can be very hit or miss) and Oregon Ave. It's a little grittier than north of Snyder, but safe with a lot of families. It's not transitional as much as blue collar. If you're close to Snyder you can still walk to East Passyunk shops and restaurants, and anywhere down there you're near the subway and a lot of local businesses. Some people will tell you to look west of Broad St into the Point Breeze neighborhood for a bargain; while it is gentrifying quickly, there are many less families and the blocks vary wildly. Some of the neighbors are not so kind to "newcomers." There is also much more crime.

The area west of Broad and South of Snyder can be nice too, I don't know the boundaries as well as east of Broad but some places are probably worth a look.

If I may ask, what is your race? If you're not white, it won't rule out any neighborhood decisions, but it can add some nuance.

**WillABro** · 07-04-2012, 02:01 PM

We are a white family. My wife is Italian and German, I grew up down south where no one really tracks those sort of things anymore ;-)

I spent years working as a carpenter/painter and am from working class roots. She is more of the professional type than me but neither of us have trouble getting along with people. We live in a mixed neighborhood at the moment that is just to the south of University of Cincinnati and just north of Downtown. Personally, we are fine with multicultural settings and endeavor to get to know folks as individuals whatever the cultural/ethnic label.

With that said, we are aware that some cultures may not welcome us and seek to avoid such areas no matter the race.

And, yes, we are very concerned about schooling. Cincinnati public schools suck, except their magnet schools, which are very hard to get into. We are considering private schools for our soon to be kindergartner. How are public schools in Philly?

**sophillycpl** · 07-05-2012, 11:53 AM

Our public schools range from excellent to crap, much like where you are coming from, our Magnets are magnificent but difficult to get into and we have some great Charter Schools with the same problem, so you can't count on them but definitely apply. To ensure you get them into a good public, in cast private or charter/magnet doesn't work out, you must reside inside the boundaries for that public school. Based on your desires and budget, I am steering you to a good grade school area, K-4th, many students are accepted at GAMP and Masterman for middleschool and both of these are excellent magnet schools (your child must be 5 by 9/1 to begin Kindergarten in Philly). The school is located at 2501 S. 13th Street, this neighborhood is very close to the Subway (underground train) and above ground bus routes if public transit is important, it's also walkable to parks and the city's sports entertainment stadiums. Call the school direct Phone: 215-952-6224 and ask for the borders for this school's catchment area, because sometimes our boundaries are crazy, I live near 2 public grade schools and the closest is not in our "catchment". I also like Meredith Grade School, but that is in a much higher economic area of South Philadelphia, so you won't have as many choices for housing. If you end up in this area, there is a Charter School, PPACS - Philadelphia Performing Arts Charters School. grades K-8, but Charters are by lottery for the entire City, so no guarantee if you do like this school because there is always a waiting list like most of our Charters. Good luck, I'm a native still in love with South Philly and hope you enjoy it also!

**tsarstruck** · 07-05-2012, 12:10 PM

I'm childless, so I can't offer an opinion about Abram Janks (the school sophillycpl talks about), but their boundary map is here:
https://webapps.philasd.org/sp_files..._maps/2520.pdf

For what it's worth, I've heard good things about Philly Performing Arts, although I eyeroll a bit with their teaching French (but hey: any foreign language is impressive). And I've a (educated, caring) friend who, while her kid got a good charter lottery number and is going to a charter, she said she would not have a problem sending her kid to Andrew Jackson, whose boundaries I shared on the map I made.

**philly704** · 07-05-2012, 05:57 PM

Hi, based on your price range. I would recommend south of Snyder and west of 11th street. I hear really great things about Jenks school and as tsarstruck posted above you should be able to find a rental in the Jenks boundary map and I am sure you would find something in the $1200 range. The best part of the area is being so close to passyunk ave and broad street line. Not to mention the stadium. I hope this helps. We have many great realtors on this forum that could probably find you something in your price range and you wouldn't have to pay a commission fee.

**WillABro** · 07-05-2012, 08:12 PM

So it sounds like the school boundaries do not line up with neighborhoods, necessarily. Very useful info, to say the least. Thanks.

**It'sJessMe** · 07-05-2012, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by WillABro

So it sounds like the school boundaries do not line up with neighborhoods, necessarily. Very useful info, to say the least. Thanks.

They definitely do not align. And don't take a realtor's word for what school catchment your house is in, check with the school or district. Sometimes the dividing line can be in the middle of the street, I believe.
But as someone who has lived in many of the same places you have (NY, L.A., now Philly) and who works from home as well and has small kids - welcome. This place is great. We've been here 11 years and love it. But if you work for yourself, as I think you said you both do, be prepared for the business privilege tax. Ouch.

**candyfish** · 07-06-2012, 03:26 AM

If you are thinking about private school, you don't really need to worry about the school catchment. You can rent a really nice house in the Newbold for under $1,200 dollars. If you're used to a little grit it would be perfect. Close to bars restaurants and public transportation. Good Luck!

**WillABro** · 07-06-2012, 09:50 AM

SO what's with this tax I keep coming across? Is it the same as the city's income tax, that I think is around 4%? Or does Philly sneak another tax onto the self employed in addition to the income tax?

As for Newbold, I would like to hear more about the area. What I have found, that I want to avoid in the future, is being in a grittier, cheaper area that lacks families with kids. I would like my son to be networked in with neighbors so he can be around other kids as much as possible. Preferably, I would like for him to be able to have kids on his block that he can play with frequently. So, if it's an up and coming area that lacks kids I wouldn't be interested.

As for private schools, I would prefer public so I don't have to pay tuition beyond what I would already be paying through levies/taxes. Private schools (for us) are an alternative to crapola public schools. Since it seems South Philly has some decent public schools around I would prefer them first and go from there. I also would not rule out good charter schools either.

Keep it coming guys, I am soaking up as much info as I can and everyone is being really helpful. Thanks.