5th and 6th street corridor/"Dickinson Narrows"

**kateroo** · 03-31-2010, 10:20 AM

I'm curious to get your opinions on 5th and 6th street areas in South Philly, in particular the area from Tasker to Washington. I currently rent in Passyunk Square and I'm considering buying a home on a side street between 5th and 6th, but I'm concerned that the 5th/6th street corridors have been slower to improve than other areas of SP...any thoughts on this?

**Eames** · 03-31-2010, 03:00 PM

I have to agree with your assessment about the area. I think that 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th are far behind the development curve of the rest of the area, and seem more like Point Breeze to me than the rest of SE Philly. The one thing going for the area that you are looking at is that the portion North of Tasker is better than the portion South of Tasker.

My advice is to drive around the streets on a warm Saturday evening to see what it is like. FWIW, I have a friend who lived on Sigel St. near 6th who felt very unsafe in her neighborhood. She moved to Federal near 12th.

**lemonfresh** · 03-31-2010, 03:57 PM

I don't know what ever happened with the Dickinson Narrows civic association. Does it still exist? It seems like being in a neighborhood that's under the umbrella of a civic association would ensure some sort of organized effort to improve the area.

I agree with Eames that you should seriously consider what the block looks like. There were some posts on Phillyblog from people who'd bought new or rehabbed places in dicey areas (I think around 4th and Moore or someplace around that area) who regretted their decisions. It's probably better to buy a not-so-great place on a nice block than a great house on a crappy block--you can fix up your own place a lot more easily than you can change your neighbors. However, I don't agree with the opinion that the only nice blocks are west of 8th or 9th. There are a lot of decent-looking blocks around Gold Star, for example.

**kateroo** · 03-31-2010, 04:34 PM

Thanks for your replies. I was thinking the same thing about checking out the block (and surrounding blocks) at different times of day, and that is definitely something I plan to do.

I had never even heard of Dickinson Narrows before I tried to figure out what neighborhood civic association this would fall into. It seems to me that neighborhood association is defunct, correct me if I'm wrong. It's strange to believe this little swath of South Philly is "unclaimed" territory.

**Insoluble** · 03-31-2010, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by kateroo

Thanks for your replies. I was thinking the same thing about checking out the block (and surrounding blocks) at different times of day, and that is definitely something I plan to do.

I had never even heard of Dickinson Narrows before I tried to figure out what neighborhood civic association this would fall into. It seems to me that neighborhood association is defunct, correct me if I'm wrong. It's strange to believe this little swath of South Philly is "unclaimed" territory.

Yeah, I've always found it strange that this neighborhood is so patchy when it's pretty much surrounded on all sides by very nice neighborhoods. That being said, I have to agree with the other posters that things change on a block to block basis in that neighborhood and you should definitely check out the street you want to live on at various times of day,talk to the neighbors, etc. (I don't think the neighborhood is nearly as bad as Point Breeze though.)

**Marty B.** · 03-31-2010, 11:28 PM

I don't know if they call if Dickenson Narrows, but wouldn't the area you're talking about also include that big park area along Washington, the one where the taco truck is parked? I'm pretty sure there's a neighborhood or civic association involved in maintaining that space, and holding a few events there over the summer. Can't think of its name though.

**mikkifinn** · 04-01-2010, 12:33 AM

I agree with the other posters. Property crime would be the least of your problems; there are a lot of shootings/homicides in that area. 5th & 7th Streets are basically factions warring with each other over territory, which accounts for most of it, especially around Moore/Mifflin. You can check with the 4th District Police, or even check that crime map which many people have posted links to in the past. Feel free to PM me if you like, but whatever they call it, I would definitely not go there.

**PennypackRat** · 04-01-2010, 01:06 AM

Buy at your own risk in this area. I wouldn't go as far at to say its on equal plane as point breeze(just stroll down 20th from washington to snyder, yikes) but its definitely choppy and in some cases dumpy. There are ethnic gangs that lay claim to the same territory so there is gang related violence and shootings and the majority of homicides that happen east of broad occur in this swath of land. Just me, but I would look elsewhere before here. If you want to stay somewhat close to east passyunk, check out st. monica's parish, near 16/17th and wolf/ritner. good luck

**mugsythedog** · 04-01-2010, 10:56 AM

If you want a place around 6th or 7th, I would stay above Reed St. I'm at 7th and Manton (between Federal and Wharton) and I don't have any problems or complaints other than the trash on 7th St. But thats all over South Phila. I also have a friend at 6th and Reed who likes her block.

**Yodzilla** · 04-01-2010, 04:50 PM

Yeah I'm right where mugsythedog is and I've not had one problem in the three years I've been there. It's pretty damn quiet around the Vietnamese shopping center there on Washington.

It gets a little uglier that farther south you go but it could be a hell of a lot worse.

**funkysoulchiken** · 04-03-2010, 02:45 PM

Dickinson Narrows is so power-hungry and corrupt, I think they've internally melted. They have $50,000 from PA DCED and a defunct website (Dickinson Narrows Civic Association) for about a year, but they still manage to show up at Zoning Board hearing supporting applications the immediate neighbors object too. My personal experience, they are all about power and control instead of trying to make things better (i.e. clean ups, tree plantings, neighbor gatherings, etc.)

**CHIOSSO** · 04-03-2010, 06:51 PM

I thought Dickinson Narrows sold out to that Wecaco group.

**benji** · 04-05-2010, 01:08 PM

I'm also on 7th street, just North of Federal, and I agree that 6th and 7th feel solid above Reed. I have friends that live on 6th and Greenwich and they've had problems with burglaries and a stabbing in their building over the past year. Things are definitely spotty in that general area.

I'm wondering if anyone has their eye on the previous sites of Crovetti's Pizza or the Federal Baking Company, both on Federal between 6th and 7th. I feel like these could be decent opportunities for new businesses and might make the nearby areas a bit more appealing if handled in the right way.

**djcheeze** · 04-05-2010, 02:56 PM

I'm in Pennsport and agree with all the assessments. I really wish this thin stretch would improve. If it did, South of Washington could start to mimic the Bella Vista/Queen Village connection.

**Mahdoumi** · 04-05-2010, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by djcheeze

I'm in Pennsport and agree with all the assessments. I really wish this thin stretch would improve. If it did, South of Washington could start to mimic the Bella Vista/Queen Village connection.

Very true. I've been here for four years, now, and I'm still amazed by the presence of those two awful streets in the midst of an otherwise solid neighborhood.

**solibs** · 04-06-2010, 02:54 AM

FWIW - that area was the old jewish part of South Philly. My understanding is that they more or less moved to the suburbs, en masse, in the 50s and that's when the decline began. The exodus from the Italian and Irish communities were more slow and steady.

There's a great appraiser's map from 1934 that shows ethnic characteristics and risk factors for buying in each neighborhood. PhilaGeoHistory Maps Viewer
green for italian, blue for jewish, rose for african-american.

The only thing that has really changed since then is that asians and latinos have filled the void for the jews and italians that left. That and most of South Philly would appraise better today than it did back then (in case people want to get all nostalgic for the good old days)

**funkysoulchiken** · 04-06-2010, 04:07 PM

yep, Mt. Saini was the first Philly hospital to allow Jewish doctors. 5th Street used to have big victorians called 'Doctors Row'...now it looks like low-income housing....

**Sarah6** · 04-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Hello!
We are considering buying on South 5th Street, between Tasker and Morris. We've visited the property several times at different times of the day. Overall it seems like the block is dirty and not well kept, but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of crime.
From anyone who lives in the neighborhood, does most of the activity happen at night? Does it happen further south? Would you raise your family in this neighborhood?

**OutOfContext** · 04-12-2010, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Sarah6

Hello!
We are considering buying on South 5th Street, between Tasker and Morris. We've visited the property several times at different times of the day. Overall it seems like the block is dirty and not well kept, but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of crime.
From anyone who lives in the neighborhood, does most of the activity happen at night? Does it happen further south? Would you raise your family in this neighborhood?

Would I raise a family in that area? Absolutely NOT.

**Mahdoumi** · 04-12-2010, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sarah6

Hello!
We are considering buying on South 5th Street, between Tasker and Morris. We've visited the property several times at different times of the day. Overall it seems like the block is dirty and not well kept, but it doesn't seem like there are a lot of crime.
From anyone who lives in the neighborhood, does most of the activity happen at night? Does it happen further south? Would you raise your family in this neighborhood?

Some of the homes on 5th closer to Tasker are nice enough, but even just a few doors south, the block turns to crap. On a warm Saturday night/very early morning, drive around that section of 5th and 6th streets (and the parallel street, Orkney) and ask yourself if you could tolerate that "activity." Now, imagine walking home from South Street at 1am past those couple of streets and ask yourself if you'd feel safe as you ascend the front steps and put the key in the lock to enter your home. Fifth Street deserves its well-known reputation. In my opinion, you'd find your surroundings more of a nuisance than a safety hazard as long as you didn't complain about it.

And no, I wouldn't go pioneering onto Fifth Street with kids. Especially teens who might be an easy target for trouble.