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  1. #1
    Dixie Normus ArcticSplash's Avatar
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    Exclamation TONIGHT - Real Estate Developer To Go To Zoning For... His Own House

    Real Estate Developer To Go to Zoning For... His Own House | PDQ

    Can you picture the drama? I sure as hell can.

    Let's get this party started. 24th and Dickinson 6:30PM tonight.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Yeah...just got a call about it this very morning. A neighbor at 20th and Ellsworth let me know. Apparently, there are plans to build four houses on the lot (20th and Annin) that was originally supposed to have three and some folks are upset...curb cuts in an area already getting very congested near the fire house and the three story v. two story drama....is anyone going? I've never been to one of these but hear the police sometimes have to get called in it gets so contentious....

  3. #3
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    Default Misinformation

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia1020 View Post
    Yeah...just got a call about it this very morning. A neighbor at 20th and Ellsworth let me know. Apparently, there are plans to build four houses on the lot (20th and Annin) that was originally supposed to have three and some folks are upset...curb cuts in an area already getting very congested near the fire house and the three story v. two story drama....is anyone going? I've never been to one of these but hear the police sometimes have to get called in it gets so contentious....

    Hi Julia:

    There is a lot of misinformation going around about this project. I encourage you to attend the meeting and learn about it.

    Ori

  4. #4
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    Hi Julia:

    There is a lot of misinformation going around about this project. I encourage you to attend the meeting and learn about it.

    Ori
    Thanks Ori....I assumed as much...there always seems to be some kind of drama going around about progress in the neighborhood. I will try to go but may not be able to make it...could you give us the run down of some of the points of contention? There are always two sides to every argument, and I can never really tell what is a valid concern versus a personal attack. The word going around appears to be focused on the height of the buildings, parking issues and other standard items...but some are throwing in personal stuff (which I ignore...not my business).

  5. #5
    Tumescent Member the mule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.philadelinquency.com/?p=2975
    I can only imagine what the natives will do to the zoning over his own house.
    I can only imagine how they will react to being called natives.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    I can only imagine how they will react to being called natives.
    Oy, yeah...good point. Note to Ori: do not refer to longtime residents of Point Breeze as natives, unless you can find evidence that said neighborhood was, indeed, formerly occupied by Native Americans (and, if you do find that Native Americans formerly occupied P. Breeze, please do not refer to them as Indians). ;-)
    Last edited by Julia1020; 06-24-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  7. #7
    Tumescent Member the mule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia1020 View Post
    Oy, yeah...good point. Note to Ori: do not refer to longtime residents of Point Breeze as natives, unless you can find evidence that said neighborhood was, indeed, formerly occupied by Native Americans. ;-)
    To be fair, Ori didn't say that. It was Arctic Splash.

  8. #8
    Dixie Normus ArcticSplash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    I can only imagine how they will react to being called natives.
    Well I could call them the people that went apesh*t over a coffee shop that the po-po had to be called out. How many babies have died over that coffee shop that's supposedly blocking all the directions of the intersection on the Ave, as stated in a certain lawsuit filed by a certain someone?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    To be fair, Ori didn't say that. It was Arctic Splash.
    I know...but I didn't want there to be a dust-up at the meeting tonight in case there was some kind of slip after reading your blog...BTW, yours appears to be the only outlet reporting the zoning meeting...couldn't really find mention of it after a brief Google search...

  10. #10
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    These meetings are meaningless anyway... decision has no barring on anything

  11. #11
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Where/when do we find out the results of the vote? Went to the meeting last night, but it was less contentious than I imagined it would be....so, I couldn't really tell which way the vote would go.

  12. #12
    Dixie Normus ArcticSplash's Avatar
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    Heh that's because two people happened to not be there along with the troops they normally bring out. But now that they have their own RCO they can start cranking out letters of non support to everything.

  13. #13
    Dixie Normus ArcticSplash's Avatar
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    So Julia, CCPB now represents you, you gonna start attending their meetings?

  14. #14
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    Heh that's because two people happened to not be there along with the troops they normally bring out. But now that they have their own RCO they can start cranking out letters of non support to everything.
    Only one person really seemed interested in fighting the project, and I couldn't really understand her logic...she wanted the houses to be on 20th Street rather than Annin (and kept pushing this point, even after Ori said the houses would front Annin but their official addresses would be on 20th) so that property taxes would not increase for Annin Street residents. She also seemed concerned about parking (as we all are) but didn't seem relieved when one of the new property owners stood up to plead for the project and indicated that neither she nor her boyfriend even own a car....I spoke with someone at the meeting about the property valuation/tax increase concerns, and he indicated her point on this also did not make complete sense...something about valuations being compared based on property "types" (e.g., new houses compared to new houses)....so her house may not be impacted. I'm new to this stuff....but trying to understand.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Julia1020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    So Julia, CCPB now represents you, you gonna start attending their meetings?
    Not sure I'm the kind of concerned citizen they'd want at their meetings. While I do understand the concerns of long-term residents of Point Breeze and am newer than new to the neighborhood, I've lived in the City for 20+ years (Manayunk, W. Mount Airy, Rittenhouse, Grad. Hospital and P. Breeze) and like to see abandoned buildings renovated/inhabited, empty lots cleaned up/developed and new industry encouraged (within certain parameters)...my bottom-line agenda and theirs would likely not mesh.
    Last edited by Julia1020; 06-25-2013 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    So Julia, CCPB now represents you, you gonna start attending their meetings?
    Now that they're a registered RCO they need to have regular meetings, correct? Should I expect to be notified of these meetings via email or by a flyer rife with spelling errors, unnecessary capitalization, and inconsistent fonts?

    Not that I expect this stipulation to be enforced at all.

  17. #17
    Tumescent Member the mule's Avatar
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    Personally I'd rather see only 3 buildings facing 20th as deeded, with the curb cut (if there must be one) on Annin. The curb cut on 20th will also seem shortsighted if the vaunted plan to turn the 1100 block of 20th to a 2-way street ever comes to fruition. Hell, if that were my house I'd rather have the side of it facing Annin just to get a little privacy and some respite from noise on 20th St.

    100% lot coverage is obscene when it blocks light to the postage stamp, non-conforming neighboring yards, plus it reduces permeable area to 0%, adding more storm runoff to an already over-stressed combined sewer system. With that said, I'm not a near neighbor, so the lot coverage doesn't really negatively affect me at all. It really only affects those buying the houses and they seem to be on board. I can understand the motivations behind the plans too. I'll just bitch about the curb cut taking up parking spaces when I try to go to the cafe.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Personally I'd rather see only 3 buildings facing 20th as deeded, with the curb cut (if there must be one) on Annin. The curb cut on 20th will also seem shortsighted if the vaunted plan to turn the 1100 block of 20th to a 2-way street ever comes to fruition. Hell, if that were my house I'd rather have the side of it facing Annin just to get a little privacy and some respite from noise on 20th St.

    100% lot coverage is obscene when it blocks light to the postage stamp, non-conforming neighboring yards, plus it reduces permeable area to 0%, adding more storm runoff to an already over-stressed combined sewer system. With that said, I'm not a near neighbor, so the lot coverage doesn't really negatively affect me at all. It really only affects those buying the houses and they seem to be on board. I can understand the motivations behind the plans too. I'll just bitch about the curb cut taking up parking spaces when I try to go to the cafe.
    The 100% coverage is only for the corner home, and the ceiling height on the 1st floor extension where the garage falls is 10'. The neighboring 3 properties have rear yards that match the rear yards of the existing homes.

    The home as proposed will maintain 100% of the water it receives.

    The previous approvals here are for 3 duplexes with 88% lot coverage (each with a 3bdrm and a 5bdrm).

    The lots have already been reoriented to face Annin Street (although the refusal does not reflect that) and 4 homes can be built here by right. I consolidated the 3 lots into 2 lots that were greater than 1600 sq. ft. and then subdivided them into 4 lots greater than 800 sq. ft. as permitted in an RSA 5 district. I need to pay $125.00 to pick up the permits and then would have to resubmit for a new refusal if I perfected that request. I will follow that process if needed. The only remaining refusal would be for open air.

    If I were to build what is approved here I would be maintaining far less open air.

    I agreed to switch these from 6 apartments to 4 homes through neighborhood discussion as what was originally approved at the RCO would create an additional burden on the adjoining homes.

    If 20th Street becomes 2 directional parking would no longer be permitted on 20th Street. It is for that reason I proposed the parking spot on that side of the 20th Street side.

    Hailey's three arguments were taxes, taxes and taxes. With all due respect......the orientation of the homes has no impact on taxes.
    Last edited by ofeibush; 06-25-2013 at 12:19 PM.

  19. #19
    Tumescent Member the mule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    The 100% coverage is only for the corner home, and the ceiling height on the 1st floor extension where the garage falls is 10'. The neighboring 3 properties have rear yards that match the rear yards of the existing homes.
    Yes I know, and I say again, 100% lot coverage is obscene for a home, corner or not. And that 10' garage will do a nice job enclosing the neighboring yard, but again, not my problem. Someone will buy it and like it, I have no doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    The home as proposed will maintain 100% of the water it receives.
    Uh come again? Maintain? The home as proposed will have roof surfaces covering 100% of the lot, roof surfaces that drain into downspouts and into the sewer system, unless of course you're planning on putting a green roof out there. Even a concrete yard absorbs water and diverts it from the storm system.

    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    I agreed to switch these from 6 apartments to 4 homes through neighborhood discussion as what was originally approved at the RCO would create an additional burden on the adjoining homes.
    That's too bad, I'd love to see apartments here. I don't know how additional residents at a currently underpopulated intersection of Point Breeze could possibly burden the adjoining homes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    If 20th Street becomes 2 directional parking would no longer be permitted on 20th Street. It is for that reason I proposed the parking spot on that side of the 20th Street side.
    So your parking is preserved, that's all well and good, but if 20th street becomes 2 directional, it will finally be the gateway to Point Breeze from Washington Ave. Having another garage fronting this gateway that hopefully someday is filled with pedestrians would be a bummer. And god knows how someone backing out of their driveway might interfere with emergency vehicles leaving the fire station!

    Quote Originally Posted by ofeibush View Post
    Hailey's three arguments were taxes, taxes and taxes. With all due respect......the orientation of the homes has no impact on taxes.
    Indeed, and the ZBA at least knows that much.

    In any case, my personal opinion is that homes fronting 20th St. would be better for 20th St., but I favor property rights over zoning laws any day, so my internet opinion is just that. So what was the outcome of the meeting and when are these getting built?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Yes I know, and I say again, 100% lot coverage is obscene for a home, corner or not. And that 10' garage will do a nice job enclosing the neighboring yard, but again, not my problem. Someone will buy it and like it, I have no doubt.
    I personally hate the look of having gaps on residential blocks. I think the garage goes a long way to improving the aesthetics on 20th but to each their own. I do not own a car and have no plan to get one. I will own 3 businesses within 50' of this location and it would be nice to have a closed space to store stuff in between seasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Uh come again? Maintain? The home as proposed will have roof surfaces covering 100% of the lot, roof surfaces that drain into downspouts and into the sewer system, unless of course you're planning on putting a green roof out there. Even a concrete yard absorbs water and diverts it from the storm system.
    I will be storing rain water with rain barrels for toilet flushes. I have also been learning a lot about green roofs for a much larger project just south of this one which will require civil engineering and storm water management. I will be incorporating a lot of what I learned into this home.


    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    That's too bad, I'd love to see apartments here. I don't know how additional residents at a currently underpopulated intersection of Point Breeze could possibly burden the adjoining homes.
    I think the area could use a lot more density but I don't want to fight anymore. The neighborhood and immediate neighbors wanted single family homes.

    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    So your parking is preserved, that's all well and good, but if 20th street becomes 2 directional, it will finally be the gateway to Point Breeze from Washington Ave. Having another garage fronting this gateway that hopefully someday is filled with pedestrians would be a bummer. And god knows how someone backing out of their driveway might interfere with emergency vehicles leaving the fire station!
    I hear you but the residents (except Haley who disagreed with her neighbors on this one) did not want a curb cut on Annin.


    Quote Originally Posted by the mule View Post
    Indeed, and the ZBA at least knows that much.

    In any case, my personal opinion is that homes fronting 20th St. would be better for 20th St., but I favor property rights over zoning laws any day, so my internet opinion is just that. So what was the outcome of the meeting and when are these getting built?
    I do not know the outcome of the meeting. It was cordial and fair and that is all I can ask for. I am hoping to break ground at the end of July.

 

 

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