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  1. #1
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    Default Killing Broad St Slowly

    although Broad St has recently seen some investment, it's nothing short of amazing how much of this once grand street that took many decades to build was dismantled
    East Side of Broad near Brown (think it's a gas station now)


    East Side of Broad from Fairmount, now a terrible Salvation Army box


    SW Corner Broad and Ridge (corner building is there, under a billboard, nothing left of the two just to the south)


    Broad and Chancellor 1916, torn down in 75 for a God awful garage


    Broad & Girard
    SW corner, CVS

    Broad & Girard NE Corner 1925, now a gas station, demolished 1971


    Broad & Girard NW Corner, 1925, now a KFC drive thru


    just to the north, this is now checkers

    NW Corner Broad & Thompson, now Sunoco

    Progress human Services


    ymca across the street
    Last edited by eldondre; 02-19-2010 at 12:38 AM.
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  2. #2
    Member PennypackRat's Avatar
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    can you dig up a pic of broad and washington, always been curious what was in that massive chained off vacant lot.

  3. #3
    Administrator Malloy's Avatar
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    WOW Broad and Girard was incredible.
    Like PS on Facebook!

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennypackRat View Post
    can you dig up a pic of broad and washington, always been curious what was in that massive chained off vacant lot.
    These pics were taken from phillyhistory.org. Check it out, it's what I do with insomnia (and curiosity). I think the Temple libraries have something similar too, but I don't have the link. the pics of that location are interesting, and you can see part of a building on that lot, but i cannot tell what the building was used for. Word to the wise, check "broad & washington" but also check nearby; i.e. 13th and Carpenter, the search function is a little wonky.

    Now brew some coffee and get comfy. This site is addictive.

  5. #5
    Schuylkill Ranger CHIOSSO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennypackRat View Post
    can you dig up a pic of broad and washington, always been curious what was in that massive chained off vacant lot.
    Passenger Station-Northwest Corner - Broad Street and Washington Avenue. Southern and Western Railroad Station
    1914-17




    Northwest Corner - Broad Street and Washington Avenue. Man Standing in Street on Railroad Tracks


  6. #6

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    Depressing. Not that it's comparable, but 777 South Broad is at least a heck of a lot closer to that stuff than a drive through Checkers. Maybe there's still some hope...
    "After it was all over, he took us in the house and served us pancakes. Pancakes!"

  7. #7
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    The Riots

    The unrest began on the evening of August 28 after a black woman named Odessa Bradford got into an argument with two police officers, one black, Robert Wells, and the other white, John Hoff, after her car stalled at 23rd Street and Columbia Avenue.[2] After Bradford refused to comply with the two officers' orders to move the car, because the car had stalled, and she was unable to drive it, an argument ensued. The officers then tried to physically remove Bradford from the car. She resisted and a large crowd assembled in the area. A man tried to come to Bradford's aid by attacking the police officers at the scene, but he and Bradford were arrested.

    Rumors then spread throughout North Philadelphia that a pregnant black woman had been beaten to death by white police officers. Later that evening, and throughout the next two days, angry mobs looted and burned mostly white-owned businesses in North Philadelphia, mainly along Columbia Avenue. Outnumbered, the police response was to withdraw from the area rather than aggressively confront the rioters.

    Although no one was killed, 341 people were injured, 774 people were arrested and 225 stores were damaged or destroyed in the three days of rioting.
    [edit] Aftermath

    Business activity in North Philadelphia declined even further after the riots, as many of the damaged or destroyed stores never re-opened for business. The riots also helped to facilitate the political rise to power of Frank Rizzo, who favored more punitive approaches to crime.

    In 1987, Columbia Avenue between Front and 33rd Streets was renamed Cecil B. Moore Avenue after the influential and often controversial Civil Rights leader. Although his role was limited, Moore has been regarded as a pacifying figure who helped quell the rioting. While present-day Cecil B. Moore Avenue is still largely impoverished, it has witnessed redevelopment, including expansion of the Temple University campus, such that the area around Broad Street is much more integrated. The Brewerytown neighborhood has also been suggested as a possible site of gentrification.

    1964 Philadelphia race riot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Is when N. Broad was left to die.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  8. #8
    Junior Old Fart Jayfar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennypackRat View Post
    can you dig up a pic of broad and washington, always been curious what was in that massive chained off vacant lot.
    Coincidentally, the blog section of phillyhistory.org is currently featuring a 2-part article, "Washington Avenue: A Representative Example of Philadelphia's Industrial Past."

    PhillyHistory

    Washington Avenue: A Representative Example of Philadelphia's Industrial Past, Part I

    Washington Avenue: A Representative Example of Philadelphia's Industrial Past, Part II
    “Guys like you I would dispatch with my roofing axe.” -- BootsywannabeACretin

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_gingivitis View Post
    Depressing. Not that it's comparable, but 777 South Broad is at least a heck of a lot closer to that stuff than a drive through Checkers. Maybe there's still some hope...
    To my knowledge, there was a conscious understanding that they were building a grand street, to rival those of Europe. 777 is great step in the right direction. you listen to billy and you might think that Philadelphia was well preserved but I think the simple fact is, we just had so much more than most places that was notable. Decades worth of demolition have almost destroyed broad st. the Ridgway Library, now school of performing arts, was used in the movie 12 monkey's (Broad and Christian) and was derelict as late as 97. Things are moving in the right directing though the new fresh Grocer doesn't treat Broad St with enough respect. These pic's should be a reminder that when we take this stuff down, it's likely they won't be filled with anything better. the city just is not generatin that kind of wealth anymore so they're worth saving. Broad would still be a Grand st waiting for revival rather than a street that looks like it survived a bombing campaign and awaits total rebuilding. We need to make sure we don't lose the Beury and DL

    Broad and Carpenter RR Station
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  10. #10
    Will Work for Food, But Prefers Cash MarketStEl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InspectorGadget View Post
    These pics were taken from phillyhistory.org. Check it out, it's what I do with insomnia (and curiosity). I think the Temple libraries have something similar too, but I don't have the link.
    Temple University Urban Archives

    The foundation of the Urban Archives' photo collection is photo library of The Evening Bulletin, once Philadelphia's dominant daily newspaper ("in Philadelphia, nearly everybody read" it). It ceased publication in 1982.

    I don't think they have as extensive a collection of online photos as PhillyHistory.org, but it's an excellent resource for local historians.
    Sandy Smith, Wanderer in Germantown, Philadelphia
    Editor-in-Chief, Philly Living Blog - but all opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member AbortedWalrus's Avatar
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    This just goes to show how important it is for something to actually be done with the Divine Lorraine.

  12. #12
    Double spaced desolate's Avatar
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    Big Problem here Eldondre.

    THese pictures are from when the buildings are in good condition.


    Most of them get removed when they resemble the current Divine or the current abandon buildings along Broad.


    Again, simple concept, restoration is 3x as much as demolition.

    Demolition give open footprint with lower $$ construction and design.

    Rehabilitation not only forces expensive rehabilitation instead of cheaper new construction, the buildings were built for a purpose and you either need to pay more to convert the building or convert your business.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  13. #13
    F the Eagles johnnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    Big Problem here Eldondre.

    THese pictures are from when the buildings are in good condition.


    Most of them get removed when they resemble the current Divine or the current abandon buildings along Broad.


    Again, simple concept, restoration is 3x as much as demolition.

    Demolition give open footprint with lower $$ construction and design.

    Rehabilitation not only forces expensive rehabilitation instead of cheaper new construction, the buildings were built for a purpose and you either need to pay more to convert the building or convert your business.
    Its not that simple Desolate. It depends on the layout of the building, how bad of shape it is and thousands of other variables etc... You posted yesterday how all the money goes into the underground/foundation portion of a building, which isnt always true. Not having to do all that work would obviously save a lot of money if it didnt have to be updated. Also tuckpointing a building as opposed to rebuilding a new brick wall/facade is much cheaper.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    Big Problem here Eldondre.

    THese pictures are from when the buildings are in good condition.


    Most of them get removed when they resemble the current Divine or the current abandon buildings along Broad.


    Again, simple concept, restoration is 3x as much as demolition.

    Demolition give open footprint with lower $$ construction and design.

    Rehabilitation not only forces expensive rehabilitation instead of cheaper new construction, the buildings were built for a purpose and you either need to pay more to convert the building or convert your business.
    I think your previous point was more relevant that it was probably more do to the wealth and economic downturn in the area. It isn't so much rehabilitation if there is money to keep something maintained to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I think your previous point was more relevant that it was probably more do to the wealth and economic downturn in the area. It isn't so much rehabilitation if there is money to keep something maintained to begin with.
    or demand to rehab it. obviously it's cheaper to tear down and put up a crapbox but is that what's good for the city? no way. the city would have been much better off offering grants to preserve these places like they did in parkside than alowing them to be demolished for drive throughs and a gas station. at the end of the day, if they were still there, the area would be a special place. now it's run down with a few reminders that the good times no longer roll. what if Puerto Rico had gone in and demolished old san juan because it was cheaper? where would that have gotten them? instead they offered tax incentives to rehab the buildings and have one of the top tourist destinations in the carribean and a desirable place to live. we stayed at el convento (obvously an old convent), they used to park trucks there
    http://www.elconvento.com/photo-tour.aspx
    replacing this


    with this

    isn't helping our city
    Last edited by eldondre; 02-19-2010 at 12:01 PM.
    "It has shown me that everything is illuminated in the light of the past"
    Jonathan Safran Foer

  16. #16
    Senior Member ZARK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
    Temple University Urban Archives

    The foundation of the Urban Archives' photo collection is photo library of The Evening Bulletin, once Philadelphia's dominant daily newspaper ("in Philadelphia, nearly everybody read" it). It ceased publication in 1982.

    I don't think they have as extensive a collection of online photos as PhillyHistory.org, but it's an excellent resource for local historians.
    I go directly to the newer Temple site which is really good and has magnification option. linkCONTENTdm Collection : Browse also the Free Library site link is good too, you can seach by streets. linkFLP - Historical Images of Philadelphia: Search And I do love these older buidings, I would hate to think what it would cost to put up a building like those old ones, what with all that fancy stone work.
    Last edited by ZARK; 02-19-2010 at 12:16 PM.

  17. #17
    Double spaced desolate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnie View Post
    Its not that simple Desolate. It depends on the layout of the building, how bad of shape it is and thousands of other variables etc... You posted yesterday how all the money goes into the underground/foundation portion of a building, which isnt always true. Not having to do all that work would obviously save a lot of money if it didnt have to be updated. Also tuckpointing a building as opposed to rebuilding a new brick wall/facade is much cheaper.
    Yes it's not simple.

    I was responding to the "it's sad we lose thees buildings"


    Yes, new construction a lot of the cost goes to foundation and utilities as they's been able to reduce the cost of the mechanical construction.


    These old building just look nice.


    They lack all modern amenities and heating plumbing, everything.


    Touch it and you have to bring it to code unless you historic it then you're really driving up costs. Then ADA.

    What work would you be saving by conducting a rehab?


    The facade?


    That's all they save now. Just the facade. Take a walk down Walnut near 20th?


    Many building now are literal shells because everything inside is useless even the windows, cross members, stairs, roof. All junk or out of code or asbestos ridden. They put asbestos in everything from the tile floors to the caulk around every window. Then add lead paint etc.


    Honest. I do this. We end up underpinning the surrounding building, supporting the superstructure of the facade with a "cage"

    Then you demo everything behind the windows and down below the foundation.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
    Temple University Urban Archives

    The foundation of the Urban Archives' photo collection is photo library of The Evening Bulletin, once Philadelphia's dominant daily newspaper ("in Philadelphia, nearly everybody read" it). It ceased publication in 1982.

    I don't think they have as extensive a collection of online photos as PhillyHistory.org, but it's an excellent resource for local historians.
    The archives at Temple are being added to regularly. They have a facebook page [Urban Archives (Paley Library, Temple University)] and there are new photos displayed on Fridays. FYI...
    Competition is indispensable to progress. John Stuart Mills.

  19. #19
    Double spaced desolate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider.adam View Post
    I think your previous point was more relevant that it was probably more do to the wealth and economic downturn in the area. It isn't so much rehabilitation if there is money to keep something maintained to begin with.
    Yes wealth. Penn rehabs at great cost.

    Not sure if you could ask the same of a resident in North philadelphia to be able to afford a rehabbed house.

    Or shop at a business that had to absorb the cost of a rehabbed structure.



    Yes a CVS with a suburb lot suck balls on Braod St.


    I HATE THEM TOO>


    But do you think CVS wants to pay to gut a building, then re plan all it's merchandise to fit, change how the operate this store compared to hundreds of others, (stocking, deliveries) and then to top it off not provide parking?


    They'll at most save the facade. Then gut the interior.

    Places in poor neighborhoods usually die from neglect. No money to fix them. They become hazards to fire, drifters, a blight.

    SO they aren't saved

    and they're never will be.
    I'm not seeing all these supposed bikes in all these million dollar bike lanes.

  20. #20
    Moderator Hospitalitygirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desolate View Post
    Yes wealth. Penn rehabs at great cost.

    Not sure if you could ask the same of a resident in North philadelphia to be able to afford a rehabbed house.

    Or shop at a business that had to absorb the cost of a rehabbed structure.



    Yes a CVS with a suburb lot suck balls on Braod St.


    I HATE THEM TOO>


    But do you think CVS wants to pay to gut a building, then re plan all it's merchandise to fit, change how the operate this store compared to hundreds of others, (stocking, deliveries) and then to top it off not provide parking?


    They'll at most save the facade. Then gut the interior.

    Places in poor neighborhoods usually die from neglect. No money to fix them. They become hazards to fire, drifters, a blight.

    SO they aren't saved

    and they're never will be.
    As much as you all hate to admit it--Des is right. If these places had been maintained or hadn't been torched/neglected/etc, they would in all likelihood still be around. But the fact is, they became white elephants--they were far too large for those that were in the neighborhoods to care for properly.
    Competition is indispensable to progress. John Stuart Mills.

 

 

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