ATTENTION ALL RENTERS - You have Leverage in Philadelphia. Read This Before You Rent in Philly.

[ArcticSplash]

Hello. I am passing this bit of 4-1-1 along since I've recently had to help counsel someone through an emergency move and what to do about it.

There ARE ways you can avoid situations like this in Philadelphia, believe it or not.


If you don't have this site bookmarked in your browser, you better.

BRT Website: Welcome to the Board of Revision of Taxes


What is it?

It's the website for the Board of Revision of Taxes

What do they do?

They're the property tax collectors/assessors of Philadelphia.


What does this have to do with me renting?

Everything. I'll make this example clear.

Let's look at this nice little property in Northern Liberties:

Gorgeous House WOW Parking,Patio,Amazing


Sounds peachy, right? And it's in the Philly-category for "luxury rent" since it's way above $1,500 a month.


But the address listed here is peculiar... 919 N. Front. According to BRT, this is a multifamily condo building.

And if you look even closer on the BRT, there have been two tax liens levied against the property owner.

2006$0.00$0.00$0.00$0.00$0.002007 $7,644.34 $974.65 $535.10 $570.45 $9,724.54 BC00040360 2008 $10,644.03 $399.15 $425.76 $709.34$12,178.28RL00670351 2009 $9,255.68 $277.67 $0.00$0.00 $9,533.35 MISC$0.00$0.00 $0.00$148.00$148.00

I know this is hard to read, but those two highlighted blocks there are the collections account numbers for the two tax liens this property has already been slapped with. And 2009's property taxes are probably also not going to get paid, either.

Why would you want to rent this "LUXURY" apartment when it has the spectre of "troubled-property" all over it?

It would be even more ironic if you are seeking a rental because your own house was foreclosed on, only to discover later that the building you're renting from is ALSO in foreclosure and/or subject to a tax seizure!

That high rent doesn't seem so realistic now, does it?

What does a TAX LIEN have to do with anything?

If you haven't known there was a housing crash, nothing. But until the Fair Housing code in Pennsylvania is modified to allow full disclosure to renters about the status of their buildings, this is the only way you can do a "credit check" against your landlord for free.

Of course, a more savvy renter who has access to PACER will also run a "legal check" on the landlord to see what litigation the landlord has been up to prior to renting. You would be surprised at what you will find when doing a search on your landlord.


What the tax leins mean
It means there is a VERY strong suspicion that the property owner is not paying the mortgage on time or if he is, making full and complete payments on it.

While it seems that a listed property on Craigslist seems like a dream, it could be that your landlord is also a deadbeat property owner.

The lawn might be manicured, the amenities devine, but all of that is worthless if the landlord doesn't pay his bills on time, especially if the building he owns has been mortgaged as an ATM machine recently, and he's passing this building off as a great deal in order to cover the mortgage payment on the property.

Do not fall for this trap.

If someone is asking for LUXURY rents on craigslist, one of the LUXURIES should not be WORRYING if your belongings will be tossed out on the street at Sheriff's sale!


So what, I'm already renting, what does this have to do with anything?

If your landlord stops paying the mortgage, 9 times out of 10 the property taxes on the investment property are also behind, too. BRT updates their site frequently, so if 2009's taxes aren't getting paid down, or worse... a tax lein number shows up on the records, this should be your cue to start finding boxes and packing your things.

I would also print out the BRT information and confront your landlord for confirmation. If the landlord refuses to answer any of your questions about the financial status of the house or building you are in, that's a clear indication that your home or apartment is in jeapordy.

Your landlord will be the last person in the world to tell you that he is in arrears on the mortgage (this also includes mega apartment complexes), and mortgage lenders are also hesitant to disclose the mortgage status to tenants because the landlord is usually relying on the tenants to supply the income to repay their debts.

The only way you can protect yourself is by snooping around and gathering information if you suspect something is up. Once you are hit with a simultaneous foreclosure warning and eviction notice, you usually have a very short period of time to get your things and get out.


Obama has pushed through a short term change in the FH code which forces mortgage lenders to notify tenants of a building (or a home) that the landlord is in default and faces foreclosure.

This notice period is now 90-days prior to the lock-out date when the Sherriff's sale process can begin. If this occurs, you now have the legal backing to immediately stop paying rent so you can save up for a new deposit and flee your current rental.

Any attempt by a landlord to toss you out of your apartment while the property taxes sit unpaid and also the mortgage will get thrown out of Landlord-Tenant Court.

If you are forced into the choice of having to stop rent payments because you know your pad is in arrears on the mortgage and you need to escape the building and you are served with an eviction hearing, DO NOT IGNORE THE HEARING NOTICE.

You need to protect your credit rating and your reputation with other landlords by protesting the eviction in front of the judge, and present the BRT website information as evidence!

Your defense in these cases (if going on the tax info alone) is that you have strong reason to believe the building is in jeapordy of foreclosure or seizure, and the lease was executed on false pretenses.

[NE19149]

We've got 3 co-eds renting down the street.... troublesome whores.
Late-night parties, empty cases of beer found on neighbors lawns in the morning.
One neighbors brand new Honda Accord was sideswiped the same night as their "Cinco Demaio" party the other week..
Also late-night howling and urination outside by partiers.
These blasts go on till 4 AM sometimes.

This is a nice, residential block... not a sorority house/campus.

So far, we've got over 30+ neighbors signed on a petition to be mailed to City Hall, and are in touch with the 15th.

Ain't nuffin' gonna help those tramps!
OUT!...... GIT!..... good riddance to bad rubbish!

.....so much for THOSE renters rights....... LOL

[ArcticSplash]

I would check the BRT status on that house, and OFTEN.

Who knows, an opportunity just might turn up there!

We've got 3 co-eds renting down the street.... troublesome whores.
Late-night parties, empty cases of beer found on neighbors lawns in the morning.
One neighbors brand new Honda Accord was sideswiped the same night as their "Cinco Demaio" party the other week..
Also late-night howling and urination outside by partiers.
These blasts go on till 4 AM sometimes.

This is a nice, residential block... not a sorority house/campus.

So far, we've got over 30+ neighbors signed on a petition to be mailed to City Hall, and are in touch with the 15th.

Ain't nuffin' gonna help those tramps!
OUT!...... GIT!..... good riddance to bad rubbish!

.....so much for THOSE renters rights....... LOL

[arlee]

Thanks for posting this. I'm actually going to be moving at the end of the summer. This will probably come in handy.

[NE19149]

I would check the BRT status on that house, and OFTEN.

Who knows, an opportunity just might turn up there!

Oh, I've checked the BRT for it, and yeah, the Maryland- based asian landlord has his taxes paid up every year... he's also been notified that his property has been listed as a "nuisance property". (been OVER 3 calls made to the cops for disturbing the peace so far)

I'm not surprised that a LOT along this block have voiced complaints and got the ball rolling on a petition... we "stick together" and communicate around here.

[billy ross]

Oddly, security deposits don't survive foreclosures. It isn't fair, but that's the way it goes.

[Argenta]

We've got 3 co-eds renting down the street.... troublesome whores.
Late-night parties, empty cases of beer found on neighbors lawns in the morning.
One neighbors brand new Honda Accord was sideswiped the same night as their "Cinco Demaio" party the other week..
Also late-night howling and urination outside by partiers.
These blasts go on till 4 AM sometimes.

This is a nice, residential block... not a sorority house/campus.

So far, we've got over 30+ neighbors signed on a petition to be mailed to City Hall, and are in touch with the 15th.

Ain't nuffin' gonna help those tramps!
OUT!...... GIT!..... good riddance to bad rubbish!

.....so much for THOSE renters rights....... LOL

You are lucky you have a group of neighbors willing to act! Good Luck I hope you get them out.

[Sharkfood]

Just for the record, Philadelphia Municipal Court does not ask for verification of property tax payments or mortgage payments when you file an action for eviction. They do require you to attach a copy of a current Rental License and certify that there are no uncorrected L&I violations.

And the Sheriff does not throw a renter's belongings on the street.
If you are the successful bidder on a house at Sheriff's sale, you have to bring an action for ejectment to remove any tenants from the house. More
commonly, the successful bidder will approach the tenants and offer to pay them a certain amount to vacate immediately.

[quarter4]

thanks for posting this! So after I look up the address, what should I be looking for? I see a tab for Account Information, Account Details, and Valuation Details

[ArcticSplash]

thanks for posting this! So after I look up the address, what should I be looking for? I see a tab for Account Information, Account Details, and Valuation Details

You want to find the payment history on the account. This lists each tax year with the balance. If it is showing a balance for the present tax year, the tax has not yet been paid. Philadelphia waits a very long time (over a year) before a tax lien number is actually assigned to a "RE property account" (this used to be called a BRT number before Nutter had the BRT dissolved).

If a lien has been issued on the property, you will see an alphanumeric code listed for the tax year that's in arrears. Tax liens are SENIOR liens, meaning at any time the City can force the possession of the property for sale (a foreclosure). When a property has a tax lien placed on it, any renter living in the property now has a lease agreement that is in jeopardy; meaning at any time you could lose the safe enjoyment of your (rented) property.

If you see this on your rental and the property is mortgaged... you should go over to the Municipal Court Docket Sheets, and search your landlord's surname or the partnership he's listed under and see if you can find any foreclosure filings against the landlord. You can also search by property address which is great, search your home address and also search the address where you send your rent checks to. When a person is facing a foreclosure lawsuit in Philadelphia, the records appear on the public court docket within 1-2 days.

The same applies to a mortgage foreclosure, which happens much more rapidly than a tax lien foreclosure. If you don't know if the mortgage on your rental is being paid, you can generally assume that it isn't if the landlord is not keeping up the property taxes on the property. Other clues to look for are repetitively-late utility bills for covered utilities. If you are getting utilities shut off that the landlord covers, this also gives you free reign to tear up the lease contract once you raise an objection to the landlord.

If your landlord asks you to suddenly cover utilities that were agreed-upon in the lease contract, then your landlord is broke. If your property is mortgaged, guess what---he isn't paying the mortgage. DON'T ever agree to this arrangement with a landlord, ever. If the landlord wants to push the cost of utilities on to you--he must wait until your lease is up for renewal.

If you offer to dock the rent by the average cost of the utility in exchange and the landlord objects---that's the surest sign yet that your landlord is not keeping up financial responsibility, and is probably behind on the mortgage, property taxes, etc.




The laws have been changed to give rental tenants more time to search for a suitable rental, and banks are now required to continue leases on rental properties that are in foreclosure until a buyer is located, which is a HUGE godsend to many people who normally would have gotten kicked out with zero warning.

If you want to strike preemptively strike against your landlord and move out once you discover a situation like this brewing, once you've obtained some form of evidence that the landlord is in arrears, it makes it impossible for the landlord to get an eviction cleared through L&T Court so long as you turn up to the hearing and show it to the judge. You will likely never see your deposit, but that's no shakes if you want to get out of a house to move somewhere else.

[ArcticSplash]

By the way, here's a perfect example. This is my house:

Tax year Principal Interest Penalty Other Total
2010 $1,142.27 $137.07 $0.00 $0.00 $1,279.34


The house that I presently rent is very late on the property taxes. Look how high the interest is compared to the tax amount ($137.07 of $1,142.27 == 12%). In a few days time it will be December. This bill should have been paid back in February.

So I look a bit deeper in the city's records... nada. So far the mortgage seems to not have reached default or he's current (90-120 days is usually when a mortgage servicer throws up its hands).


It seems right now my landlord is in the early stages before a person sinks into default. I have had to advance rent to him in exchange for a rent discount to my LL 4 times now, and I already pay my rent an average of 7-10 days ahead of time when it's actually due, and seriously overdue property taxes... he has to be skating on thin ice.

[ArcticSplash]

OK, with my own landlording situation, I have found some more advice to give to you potential city renters out there. Learn how to protect yourself.

If you have chosen to rent an apartment in Philadelphia, or especially a house, there is more information you can collect about your landlord before you agree to sign that lease. I've put this in a step-by-step list so you can cover all of the bases.


When searching for an apartment or rental home in Philadelphia...

Bookmark this website: OPA Website: Terms of Use and Disclaimer

1. Do not sign a lease in Philadelphia until you have at least looked at the property you will be renting on the OPA website. NEVER give a landlord a deposit check to "hold" the property while you consider signing his or her lease agreement. If you have other apartments or houses to go see, tell the landlord "I'll think about it."

If they insist the apartment will be going soon, they are usually lying, especially at the larger apartment complexes where there are always vacant units no matter the season.

2. Do not agree to a credit check unless the landlord is ready to give you a lease. When a landlord checks your credit, this is a HARD INQUIRY on your credit report that lasts for 24 months. For 12 months this hard inquiry will usually lower your FICO scores by a few points.

If the landlord requires you do this before they even consider your application, then move along. Some people have accumulated as many as 9 hard inquiries on their credit reports by soliciting many landlords at once and agreeing to multiple credit checks across a variety of landlords.

When you accumulate a lot of hard inquiries this can cause problems with your other creditors who think you are desperately seeking out credit; and it can cause adverse actions by other creditors, especially with credit card companies. So, do not agree to a credit check from any landlord unless the landlord is ready to fork over the Lease papers as soon as the credit check is completed.

If you have a hardcopy of your credit report, you can offer to produce the hardcopy and tell the landlord you will agree to their own credit pull, but not as a condition of seeing any apartment, or not being able to get the apartment you wanted AFTER the credit report is pulled.

3. Locate the physical address of the property online on the OPA website. OPA stands for the Philadelphia Office of Property Assessment. This is where you can find out who actually owns a property and if they are paying property taxes.

As I've stated before in this thread, do not rent an apartment or a house from anyone who owes back property taxes.

Property taxes in Philadelphia are due March 31. If you see any money listed in the Interest or Penalty columns on the OPA website (click on View Tax Balances), this property is delinquent.

When a landlord is not paying this obligation, it's a clear indicator that you will have trouble with this landlord down the road for a lot of other things, especially anything having to do with repairs. Good luck on getting your deposit back at the end of the lease.

4. Try to avoid illegal rental properties. You can use the OPA website to easily discover this information.

Look carefully at the address and ownership information on the property. The landlord's name should be present, or the name of the real estate partnership that owns the property. However, the mailing address of the owner should be different than that of the rental property.

The only way this address would be the same is if your landlord is also living on the property, or there is a rental office on-site and the owner manages the rental business from that location.


So if your landlord has listed the rental address under the ownership record, you are dealing with an illegal rental property. It's also very likely that this landlord is also not licensed to rent property. You can verify this information with L&I. See my instructions below.


5. If you see a Real Estate Tax Lien showing on the property on OPA's website, DO NOT RENT this property. In Pennsylvania, a landlord is required to maintain financial responsibility in order to hold the right to lease property.

The presence of a Real Estate Tax Lien means that the house is in jeopardy of a tax foreclosure. If you sign a lease with this landlord, it will mean nothing if the City actually acts to recover their unpaid taxes. The landlord can lose the property to a Sheriff's Sale, your deposit will be stolen by that landlord, and you may or may not get a new landlord when the property is sold. This could result in an eviction through no fault of your own if the new owner wishes to use it as their domicile.

Here's what you look for if a property has a tax lien on it:



If you see a RL number in the Lien column, run. Don't walk, run from this property.


3. Once you have decided to rent from one landlord and you're ready to sign that lease, it pays you to do one final background check.

This check is FREE but it requires you to do this in person.



HOW TO DO A BACKGROUND SEARCH ON YOUR POTENTIAL LANDLORD

In Pennsylvania, a landlord may not collect rent if he does not have all the required permits and licenses for a property.

There are two very important licenses the landlord must have in order to rent property in Philadelphia: A Business Privilege License (called a "BPL"), and a Housing License (aka a "Renting License", or "Landlord License").

If you are dealing with an apartment management company, there are going to be more licenses plus permits. However, most apartment management companies will have these licenses because they regularly file court cases at Landlord-Tenant Court to evict tenants. However, there's been notable instances of large apartment buildings renting out units without having required licenses.

Private landlords are more likely to not have the required licenses to rent in Philadelphia.

Also, if you are using the services of a Real Estate Agent to locate a rental property, do not expect that the Agent will know whether or not the landlord is properly licensed. It's not an Agent's responsibility to check this information before representing a landlord in front of a prospective tenant.

Real Estate Agents who do apartment searches are being paid a referral fee by the landlord if you agree to sign a lease with the landlord.


LOCATE THE LANDLORD'S LICENSES

1. Print a hardcopy of the information about the rental you saw on the OPA website. It should list the owner's name and address on it. This will help L&I locate the licenses quickly.

2. Go to 15th and JFK, across from City Hall, to the Municipal Services Building. This is the building that sits across the north side from City Hall that has the statue of Frank Rizzo out front. Take the escalators down to the basement level, then walk over to the righthand side of the basement where you see the signs that say "TAXES LICENSES PERMITS".

3. There will be a ticket clerk. Tell her you are here to look up some Licenses. You will be given a ticket and go to the L&I waiting area. It looks like this:



4. When you are called, ask the clerk: "I need to know if this property has a Landlord License, and I want to know if this property owner has a BPL." If she cannot find it, ask that she print you a statement showing that no licenses were found.



If the building you are renting from does not have the required licenses, the Lease Agreement your prospective landlord will have you sign is not valid. You can also expect that your deposit will be "lost" the second you hand it over to the landlord. If the licenses are not there, then take the documents L&I will give you, and return to your prospective landlord and give him the documents and then reject the offer to sign a lease, and then continue with your apartment search.

[ArcticSplash]

HAS MY LANDLORD BEEN SUED BEFORE OR HAS SUED SOMEONE?


Another background search you can do on landlords from the comfort of home. Here are the 1st District Court Docket searches you can do on any prospective landlord to see if they have been involved in litigation:

Code Compliance / Landlord-Tenant Court***
Philadelphia Municipal Court

Be sure to click on the Public Access button on the righthand side to get into the system.


Civil (Trial) Courts:
Civil Docket Access

Pay attention to the Party Type column if you get search results back and see your potential landlord in the list. If it says "DFT", they were a defendant in a civil court case [someone sued the landlord]. PTF indicates that the landlord filed suit against someone. The nature of the case is visible under case type. For instance, a personal injury claim may say "SLIP/FALL".


Criminal Courts (Court of Common Pleas)
Common Pleas Docket Sheet


When you do a search through the Landlord-Tenant system, don't bother to select a Case Type. You want to search ALL the case types so you can see as much as possible. One thing that you should look for is lawsuits that L&I has filed against your landlord. This is what one of them looks like:



In this particular case, the landlord was sued by L&I because they had a fire suppression system (alarms and sprinklers) in their building that did not comply with city codes. [This landlord had to pay a fine.]



*** If you see any Landlord-Tenant cases in the system, pull up any one of the cases where your prospective landlord is the Plaintiff and check to see if the license is for the property you are considering renting. In the filing documents there should be a copy showing the landlord's L&I housing license.

Unfortunately the courts do not also check the presence of a BPL (Business Privilege License), which is also required to have standing to sue. If your landlord does not have a BPL this is less serious than not having a housing license, but not having either license means the landlord is forbidden from collecting rent in the city of Philadelphia.


Luckily in the Code Enforcement and Landlord Tenant docket systems you can see ALL the paperwork involved in the court cases. Unfortunately in the Civil Trial docket system, all you can see is the procession of the court case.

In the Criminal system you can see only certain documents (usually the indictment/complaint forms and the case dispensation sheet).




This is a lot of information to digest, but with these publicly-available searches that most renters are not aware of, you actually have more tools available to you to research your landlord before you decide to enter into a legal contract with them. It can certainly help you ensure that your landlord is a legitimate landlord that operates his business properly.

If you're stuck in a bad rental situation, this information can most definitely help you should you decide to pursue legal action against your landlord.


This information can also help protect you from entering into another bad rental situation again.

[StrangeTanks]

This is just silly on 2 fronts.

First, any home owner knows that the bank would freak out if your RE taxes weren't paid. Thats why most of them escrow the taxes. RE taxes supersede other liens in the order of getting paid off in the event of sheriff's sale.

Second, in Philadelphia its almost ridiculous to even bother paying RE taxes. The city does such an incredibly poor job of collections that its not even funny. I'v seen plenty of properties that haven't paid a nickels worth of RE taxes in over 20 years. Last time I looked it up, Phila was owed more in back taxes than all the other counties in PA combined.

Why not collect them you say? Because the city has already sold the majority of the debt for pennies on the dollar to a well connected law firm.

[ArcticSplash]

This is just silly on 2 fronts.

First, any home owner knows that the bank would freak out if your RE taxes weren't paid. Thats why most of them escrow the taxes. RE taxes supersede other liens in the order of getting paid off in the event of sheriff's sale.

Second, in Philadelphia its almost ridiculous to even bother paying RE taxes. The city does such an incredibly poor job of collections that its not even funny. I'v seen plenty of properties that haven't paid a nickels worth of RE taxes in over 20 years. Last time I looked it up, Phila was owed more in back taxes than all the other counties in PA combined.

Why not collect them you say? Because the city has already sold the majority of the debt for pennies on the dollar to a well connected law firm.

ST, this thread doesn't concern homeowners it concerns renting and it's intended for renters, namely to identify problematic potential landlords, or in the case of current problematic landlords, how to discern whether or not the landlord is legitimately renting property, legally.

FTR, I didn't know about how best to go about doing an L&I search on my ex-landlord whom I have a current dispute with [which will no doubt wind up at Landlord-Tenant Court].

Now that I am preparing to sue him, I've discovered how the process works to make the L&I inquiries. BTW, you cannot call L&I customer service on the phone to do these searches, they refer you to the MSB service center.


This particular landlord met several criteria that would have been helpful to know before signing the lease
- No Housing License
- No BPL
- The OPA record on his house shows his mailing address to be the rental property's address. 99% of the time this will not be the case on a legitimate rental property. The owner's mailing address will not be the same address where you are renting at. This is what all illegal rentals look like in OPA's system. They're disguised as owner-occupied homes on OPA's website. The owner actually lives somewhere else.


Then there are the obvious things that happened afterwards:
- Landlord stopped paying property taxes
- Landlord never sent escrow statements after the 12-month mark as required under Landlord-Tenant law in Pennsylvania. This is required both on multi-year leases and annual lease renewals.
- Landlord confiscated deposit

Note that absentee landlords are not the same as an illegal rental. Absentee landlords is just a property owner who does not live in the city and rents here. An illegal rental is where the landlord is taking rent and escrow deposits and "hiding" from the city. No licenses, OPA account shows it to be owner-occupied, etc.



As for filing a complaint on an illegal rental situation, this is now handled by 3-1-1.

For landlords who do not have a BPL, you can email the following address to file a fraud complaint with the Department of Revenue:

taxfraud@phila.gov

[Gladys]

Cops nab suspect who they say took 6 would-be renters for $600 apiece - Philly.com

[longtimephilly]

While I applaud your conviction I have to say that you make us landlords look like 3 headed beasts out to take virgins in the night and pee on rose bushes.

I don't pee on rose bushes.

Frankly, I've had bad landlords in the past. Rashid Butt (works out of University City) is one of the shadier guys that doesn't fix anything in any reasonable amount of time. Avoid him. Once I started buying my own properties, I knew what kind of guy I didn't want to be.

That being said, if a potential tenant is as confrontational as you're making it seem, I wouldn't rent to them. I do a credit check. Don't want me to do it? Well then that makes me think you have crappy credit and will skip on rent.

Don't want you.

If a renter wants me to dance a tango or make another dozen people wait while they run a background check on me personally, I'll give away the apartment/house while they play games.

It's VERY important to know your rights as a renter, but going to the levels of Conspiracy Theory is just a tad much.

[ArcticSplash]

While I applaud your conviction I have to say that you make us landlords look like 3 headed beasts out to take virgins in the night and pee on rose bushes.

I don't pee on rose bushes.

Frankly, I've had bad landlords in the past. Rashid Butt (works out of University City) is one of the shadier guys that doesn't fix anything in any reasonable amount of time. Avoid him. Once I started buying my own properties, I knew what kind of guy I didn't want to be.

That being said, if a potential tenant is as confrontational as you're making it seem, I wouldn't rent to them. I do a credit check. Don't want me to do it? Well then that makes me think you have crappy credit and will skip on rent.

Don't want you.

If a renter wants me to dance a tango or make another dozen people wait while they run a background check on me personally, I'll give away the apartment/house while they play games.

It's VERY important to know your rights as a renter, but going to the levels of Conspiracy Theory is just a tad much.

Until Landlords can figure out what the hell a soft inquiry is versus a hard one, and get their credit pullers to stop slapping hard inquiries on people's credit files when doing credit report pulls and instead pull soft inquiries (which lets you peek at the credit report in the same exact manner as a hard pull), my advice stands and I wouldn't want to ever rent from you, either.

If you are positive your credit puller only does softs, it would be wise to advertise as such. Hard inquiries ruin credit scores.

[longtimephilly]

Until Landlords can figure out what the hell a soft inquiry is versus a hard one, and get their credit pullers to stop slapping hard inquiries on people's credit files when doing credit report pulls and instead pull soft inquiries (which lets you peek at the credit report in the same exact manner as a hard pull), my advice stands and I wouldn't want to ever rent from you, either.

If you are positive your credit puller only does softs, it would be wise to advertise as such. Hard inquiries ruin credit scores.

1) even a hard check only affects your credit score for 6 months, not 24 as you said earlier. That is unless something has changed mightily in the past few months.

2) There's absolutely no reason for a landlord to do a hard check. Only a series of hard checks will have any real affect on your credit score as they are roughly a 5 point shot.

So before you get all Confrontational with a potential landlord and foam in his face about hard inquiries (which he probably isn't doing), you should know what the hell it is and how it would take several in a short span of time to have any real affect on your credit score.

My point, is that renters should try to start off their relationship with any *GOOD* landlord in a less adversarial manner than what you're proposing. I'm not saying don't be cautious, because he/she certainly is, but treating them like the enemy from day 1 isn't going to do either of you any favors.

[longtimephilly]

Cops nab suspect who they say took 6 would-be renters for $600 apiece - Philly.com

Oh, and this guy wasn't a landlord. Just a former renter that was scamming people, but hey, let's just pretend he was right?