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  1. #1
    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Default Fluid is closing

    “Part of the bigger dynamic is how drastic South Street has changed,” said manager Oronde Gibson, who has worked at Fluid for 14 years. “It’s gone from a mom and pop artsy-type thing to a corporate type-thing.”

    Gibson has seen South Street and Fluid's complete evolutiion, reminiscing about a time when the Roots (then known as the Square Roots) played outside on the sidewalk. Now, he said, no one wants to deal with South Street parking issues, so most kids just stay up in Fishtown or Northern Liberties.
    Link: Fluid Nightclub to close


    Nightclubs go in and out, I get that. But what is this complaint about South Street being "corporate?" All the chains closed years ago, I think Auntie Ann's is the only one left. Everything else is local business. It's true that the art and music scene has gravitated to the Fishtown/Kensington but is it because South St went "corporate?"

  2. #2
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarryG View Post
    Link: Fluid Nightclub to close


    Nightclubs go in and out, I get that. But what is this complaint about South Street being "corporate?" All the chains closed years ago, I think Auntie Ann's is the only one left. Everything else is local business. It's true that the art and music scene has gravitated to the Fishtown/Kensington but is it because South St went "corporate?"
    Everything in the manager's rant reeks of cluelessness. Kids are tired of parking woes and staying in fish town?! What b.s.. This weekend, Tattooed Moms and Dobbs were standing room only with people from nolibs and fish town. In fact, I met two separate groups this weekend from fish town on south street after they attended stuff at kung fu necktie and barbary. They don't drive, they ride bikes or cab it. And when Fluid was born, there was no Fishtown/nolibs/old city scene. It's not exactly rocket science-the population has stayed about the same, but venues have grown 4 fold through the years.

    It isn't even a question of Fluid-it was still profiting. I've heard from several people that Latest Dish was the actual burden, and that it was still open only because of the night club profits(as told to me from several current and past workers). It has been looking more than a bit tattered the past few years, and although their food was always amazing it just kind of lost its niche among regulars that went elsewhere.

    And yeah-the whole corporate thing is complete bull ****. Auntie Annes, starbucks, and Haagen Das(sp) do not make a corporate jungle.

  3. #3
    jester is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucidinnature View Post
    Everything in the manager's rant reeks of cluelessness. Kids are tired of parking woes and staying in fish town?! What b.s.. This weekend, Tattooed Moms and Dobbs were standing room only with people from nolibs and fish town. In fact, I met two separate groups this weekend from fish town on south street after they attended stuff at kung fu necktie and barbary. They don't drive, they ride bikes or cab it. And when Fluid was born, there was no Fishtown/nolibs/old city scene. It's not exactly rocket science-the population has stayed about the same, but venues have grown 4 fold through the years.

    It isn't even a question of Fluid-it was still profiting. I've heard from several people that Latest Dish was the actual burden, and that it was still open only because of the night club profits(as told to me from several current and past workers). It has been looking more than a bit tattered the past few years, and although their food was always amazing it just kind of lost its niche among regulars that went elsewhere.

    And yeah-the whole corporate thing is complete bull ****. Auntie Annes, starbucks, and Haagen Das(sp) do not make a corporate jungle.
    I was kind of wondering about this myself. It doesn't seem corporate to me as much as it seems that there are just hotter spots elsewhere. Hell, Tower and McDonalds aren't even there anymore, so I'm not sure how people really consider it to be "corporate" anymore. I don't know anything about the rents there, but is the perception (and/or reality) of them is that they are prohibitive and therefore "corporate"?

    This isn't a knock against South Street, but I think it's true that people now want to go to Kung Fu Necktie, Johnny Brenda's, Barcade, Frankford Hall (sometimes), Fishtown Tavern, and Barbary. There's a nice critical mass of new stuff to do around there (and old stuff that became cool again). South Street and the surrounding area still has great stuff but it's just not new stuff. The best part is that even so, people still go to South Street in droves.

    As far as parking woes, I've noticed that the parking permissions have changed in Fishtown/NoLibs. It used to be fairly easy to park around Johnny Brenda's, and it still is, if you know where to park or you don't mind a bit of a walk. A lot of the closest spots to park are two hour spots until midnight, which is a drag if you're going to see a show there that starts around nine. I think it's actually easier to park these days in the South Street area if you know what you're doing versus parking in Fishtown/NoLibs.

  4. #4
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    Agreed on all counts.

    I see the same crowds at all venues. I've ran into the same friends at moms, ortleibs, gunners, mroom, etc.. It just depends on what's going on.

    Additionally, Fluid is just a different type of spot. KungFu and all other fishtown places are either bar centric or bar-live band oriented, whereas fluid is a dj nightclub-period. I love fluid, love the owner and all the great times there, but it's a dance club while the rest of the world is bar and bands these days. Dance clubs just aren't doing anything these days unless it's Vegas or A.C..


    Quote Originally Posted by jester View Post
    I was kind of wondering about this myself. It doesn't seem corporate to me as much as it seems that there are just hotter spots elsewhere. Hell, Tower and McDonalds aren't even there anymore, so I'm not sure how people really consider it to be "corporate" anymore. I don't know anything about the rents there, but is the perception (and/or reality) of them is that they are prohibitive and therefore "corporate"?

    This isn't a knock against South Street, but I think it's true that people now want to go to Kung Fu Necktie, Johnny Brenda's, Barcade, Frankford Hall (sometimes), Fishtown Tavern, and Barbary. There's a nice critical mass of new stuff to do around there (and old stuff that became cool again). South Street and the surrounding area still has great stuff but it's just not new stuff. The best part is that even so, people still go to South Street in droves.

    As far as parking woes, I've noticed that the parking permissions have changed in Fishtown/NoLibs. It used to be fairly easy to park around Johnny Brenda's, and it still is, if you know where to park or you don't mind a bit of a walk. A lot of the closest spots to park are two hour spots until midnight, which is a drag if you're going to see a show there that starts around nine. I think it's actually easier to park these days in the South Street area if you know what you're doing versus parking in Fishtown/NoLibs.

  5. #5
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    The bar manager is clueless. But one question...NOW where is DJ Robert going to spin?
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

  6. #6
    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucidinnature View Post
    It isn't even a question of Fluid-it was still profiting. I've heard from several people that Latest Dish was the actual burden, and that it was still open only because of the night club profits(as told to me from several current and past workers). It has been looking more than a bit tattered the past few years, and although their food was always amazing it just kind of lost its niche among regulars that went elsewhere.
    My girlfriend lived one block from Latest Dish for years, we went twice ever. We'd go to Southwark, Tapestry when it was open, Beau Monde, even walk farther to Catahoula and Royal Tavern frequently, but never wanted to go back to Latest Dish. The food wasn't bad (though certainly not "amazing" for us) but the menu was overall unappealing to both of us. Lots of tired Asian fusion dishes (I don't want sweet chili sauce on my calamari and wings), boring entrees, and no sandwich options besides grilled chicken -- a big problem since when we want to spend $15-20+ on entrees we don't usually go to a bar or at least want something beyond basic fish/chicken/steak options. It many ways it felt like time warp back to the '90s. The menu really needs a kick in the ass but never seems to changed.

  7. #7
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    hehehehe... I actually loved their calamari! And scallops. But it's certainly understandable. Their menu was a bit limited for this day and age.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarryG View Post
    My girlfriend lived one block from Latest Dish for years, we went twice ever. We'd go to Southwark, Tapestry when it was open, Beau Monde, even walk farther to Catahoula and Royal Tavern frequently, but never wanted to go back to Latest Dish. The food wasn't bad (though certainly not "amazing" for us) but the menu was overall unappealing to both of us. Lots of tired Asian fusion dishes (I don't want sweet chili sauce on my calamari and wings), boring entrees, and no sandwich options besides grilled chicken -- a big problem since when we want to spend $15-20+ on entrees we don't usually go to a bar or at least want something beyond basic fish/chicken/steak options. It many ways it felt like time warp back to the '90s. The menu really needs a kick in the ass but never seems to changed.

  8. #8
    BarryG is offline Senior Member
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    The Latest Dish to close

    Both are closing... in this article, the owner laments that there was much less competition when he opened. Maybe changing your menu once since 1996 would have helped you compete? A new menu and a new beer/cocktail list would have put butts into seats, especially after Tapestry closed.

  9. #9
    Jayfar's Avatar
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    And the other shoe drops. Lease is up and Latest Dish will go away as well.

    The Latest Dish to close
    “Guys like you I would dispatch with my roofing axe.” -- BootsywannabeACretin

  10. #10
    Hospitalitygirl's Avatar
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    It sounds as though the loss of a business partner had more to do with the pending closure than anything regarding South Street.
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

  11. #11
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl View Post
    It sounds as though the loss of a business partner had more to do with the pending closure than anything regarding South Street.
    Partner has been gone for years... they used to also have Cue records next door

  12. #12
    MNG1324 is online now Senior Member
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    Last time i was at the Latest Dish was in the 90's, and it was stale then. I'm amazed they stayed in business that long but hell Downey's is still open. Why they are open i'm not sure.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucidinnature View Post
    Partner has been gone for years... they used to also have Cue records next door
    My mistake; when I first read the article, it wasn't clear. A second look made it more obvious that it wasn't a recent thing. Still I can't help but shake my head at someone who's been in the district for this long not learning a lesson or two from some longer-term, more established businesses. There are restaurants that have been around 20+ years.
    I am not the Jackass Whisperer.

  14. #14
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hospitalitygirl View Post
    My mistake; when I first read the article, it wasn't clear. A second look made it more obvious that it wasn't a recent thing. Still I can't help but shake my head at someone who's been in the district for this long not learning a lesson or two from some longer-term, more established businesses. There are restaurants that have been around 20+ years.
    I think the big thing is that the nightclub scene just isn't good these days. Every little bar is having events anymore. Hell, moms had a standing room only dj event this weekend. Even a few years ago, that event would have been at Fluid. These days, everything is going the bar route instead of nightclubs.

    There are restaurants that have been around longer, but with that building and expense, both needed to do well.

  15. #15
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    It's killing me trying to remember the name of what was there before- quasi-punk / dance club of some sorts (unisex bathrooms, lots of tok'n). It was a club as well as an eatery below back then as well. I was disappointed it changed to Fluid then because i thought it was tacky and not nearly as gritty and honest as what was there before (I was there for a DJ a.m. christening of the new place and never went back). whatever.

    See how things change?

    Criminey, its not the end of the world or a death bell for a neighborhood when a business goes away. Its just the natural way of things.
    SooooooooooooooooPER ........................ SL O WD O WN

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersupper View Post
    It's killing me trying to remember the name of what was there before- quasi-punk / dance club of some sorts (unisex bathrooms, lots of tok'n). It was a club as well as an eatery below back then as well. I was disappointed it changed to Fluid then because i thought it was tacky and not nearly as gritty and honest as what was there before (I was there for a DJ a.m. christening of the new place and never went back). whatever.

    See how things change?


    Criminey, its not the end of the world or a death bell for a neighborhood when a business goes away. Its just the natural way of things.
    Zero was the name before The Latest Dish/Fluid

  17. #17
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    superfluffer talking poorly about another business while completely whining when people merely mention that a place in old city closes.

    Quote Originally Posted by supersupper View Post
    It's killing me trying to remember the name of what was there before- quasi-punk / dance club of some sorts (unisex bathrooms, lots of tok'n). It was a club as well as an eatery below back then as well. I was disappointed it changed to Fluid then because i thought it was tacky and not nearly as gritty and honest as what was there before (I was there for a DJ a.m. christening of the new place and never went back). whatever.

    See how things change?

    Criminey, its not the end of the world or a death bell for a neighborhood when a business goes away. Its just the natural way of things.

  18. #18
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    In no order ...

    1. The previous club was actually spelled Xero.

    2. Oronde isn't clueless. I've worked alongside him for 15 years ... his quote was out of context. What he was saying was that the corporate culture that came to the Street years back worked to drive out that indie, underground vibe the street had - and that vibe landed in NoLibs etc... The spotlight on the street shifted. Fact was, as one who has produced events at Fluid since its inception, at that point in time, it wasn't "cool" to have a party at Fluid or near South Street. That of course has changed of late - but too late to affect Fluid/Dish.

    3. Parking IS an issue for those that went to Fluid - trust me, I hear this monthly for the past ten years. Lots on a Friday night are top-dollar and eats into 'clubbing' monies. A good portion of my crowd (and the crowd of many of the remaining parties at Fluid) aren't biking/septa folk ... they drive.

    4. The point made above by lucid is most-accurate; the number of options (both dining and nightlife) has almost quadrupled since Dish/Fluid opened ... and that def was a major cause it its decline.

    5. However lucid - I'd have to question that that club was profiting - my party was consistently the most-successful event each month for years, the other nights were hit/miss (unlike Fluid's golden years when EVERY night was stellar!) ... so I think both the club and the restaurant were struggling of late.

    6. Finally, I will carry on - I have a few gigs in town and plan to find the right home so that Sex Dwarf can finish out its 10th and final year!


    visit me online @ http://DJRobertDrake.com

  19. #19
    lucidinnature is offline Banned
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    1.yep.
    2. Come on my friend. Now-look at the quote in the press and put that against your reiteration. That's apples and oranges. We both know that the press chops sentences, but there's no way anyone could get what you just said through his quote above.
    3. Sorry, but I just don't buy it. Yes-I know you know the night better than I do. Yes, you know that we know each other and I seriously take everything you say as holy truth. I also think that anyone who says this is an idiot. Seriously?! They come to your nights.. come to south street... proclaim themselves to be the old heads... and they don't know how the f' to get down here and park?!?!?! Actually, I can sum it up in one word. BULL****!!!!! You and I were bottle fed in clubs! We come out at 10!!!! What time does all parking meters end on south street?! 10PM! They can park for free!!! For $5 after 8pm they can park in about 5 lots within feet of Fluid!!! If they can't figure that out, they really shouldn't leave bucks county.
    4I'm always accurate
    5.I'm merely quoting people who spoke to Tony you know who. His words, from a few chefs in the neighborhood. May just be wordplay. Who knows.
    6.You'll always have a night until I finally get anal cancer and die. I know this as fact.
    7.Sorry man, celebrating my divorce and I'm f'n drunk as a skunk. Tried to sum it up, but this crap may need some reiteration in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthStMan View Post
    In no order ...

    1. The previous club was actually spelled Xero.

    2. Oronde isn't clueless. I've worked alongside him for 15 years ... his quote was out of context. What he was saying was that the corporate culture that came to the Street years back worked to drive out that indie, underground vibe the street had - and that vibe landed in NoLibs etc... The spotlight on the street shifted. Fact was, as one who has produced events at Fluid since its inception, at that point in time, it wasn't "cool" to have a party at Fluid or near South Street. That of course has changed of late - but too late to affect Fluid/Dish.

    3. Parking IS an issue for those that went to Fluid - trust me, I hear this monthly for the past ten years. Lots on a Friday night are top-dollar and eats into 'clubbing' monies. A good portion of my crowd (and the crowd of many of the remaining parties at Fluid) aren't biking/septa folk ... they drive.

    4. The point made above by lucid is most-accurate; the number of options (both dining and nightlife) has almost quadrupled since Dish/Fluid opened ... and that def was a major cause it its decline.

    5. However lucid - I'd have to question that that club was profiting - my party was consistently the most-successful event each month for years, the other nights were hit/miss (unlike Fluid's golden years when EVERY night was stellar!) ... so I think both the club and the restaurant were struggling of late.

    6. Finally, I will carry on - I have a few gigs in town and plan to find the right home so that Sex Dwarf can finish out its 10th and final year!


  20. #20
    Malloy's Avatar
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    I've generally driven to the South St area most of my life and parking has always been a bitch. I paid $15 to park last night (the lot was packed too) Why? I wanted pizza from Nomad and I couldn't find a spot on the street. The 2 groups in line behind me at Nomad were from Oaks and the Main Line.
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