Underground River to River rapid transit and Next to arrive Bus signs top Planning meeting...

**mixiboi** · 10-22-2012, 09:47 PM

Interesting..

City Planners suggest using Reading Viaduct cut - an old industrial railway tunnel - to get transit riders from Schuylkill to the Delaware | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

What if Philadelphians could take bus rapid transit from the Schuylkill River to the Delaware River, traveling part of the way beneath the surface in a former industrial railway tunnel – the defunct Reading Viaduct cut?

And what if electronic signs told them and other bus users just how long they would have to wait for their connections?

Among other ideas participants considered:

-A new building for the 6th and 9th police districts.

-Creation of a multi-agency task force that would work to get long-vacant buildings developed. The task force would be concerned with tax-delinquent owners and buildings with safety hazards, but also buildings that have simply sat neglected for a long period of time.

-Addition of affordable housing units in the central district, with some providing senior housing.

-Redevelopment of the inter-city bus station at 10th & Filbert so that it has a direct connection to Market East Station.

-Expansion of bike infrastructure, with not only more bike lanes and racks, but also a bike station, a “parking garage for bikes,” potentially with a maintenance shop, air pumps, lockers and showers.

-Rehabilitation of the elevated Reading Railroad Viaduct into a park.

**eldondre** · 10-22-2012, 11:14 PM

nobody in our group seemed particularly interested in riverfront transit but the portion from cc to the museum got some support

**BarryG** · 10-22-2012, 11:32 PM

I thought we were making a cave-park out of the city branch not some dumb transportation project.

**eldondre** · 10-23-2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by BarryG

I thought we were making a cave-park out of the city branch not some dumb transportation project.

The city remains interested in some transit use. The.planners seemed well aware this cut provided added utility. Be aware the greenies were out in force...and went so far as to suggest transit would be better off on the surface with the cut being used for a park. The annoying thing about the central district meetings is the number of organizations rather than people.if you support transit I'd encourage you to show up Thursday. I remain convinced transit will only make sense if they open the bus route to other routes like the 32,38, & 48.

**John Goodman** · 10-23-2012, 08:45 AM

Are the underground park people serious?

I keep trying to ignore it but they won't shut up... There is no way the actually think that's a good idea

**TLP** · 10-23-2012, 09:13 AM

Our group was gung-ho about fixing City Hall/15th Station, and that took up a huge chuck of the budget. ($120M/$165M in play money) We eventually set aside our leftover budget for the planning/environmental studies for the City Branch.

**mixiboi** · 10-23-2012, 09:33 AM

This reminds me why I don't do these meetings..this is real life, not sim city(3000). lol

But I am also for transit underground...If you ever tried to get across east to west on a bus during rush hour, you know why...

And if we are going to have a park, I rather have it tin the sky then in the sewer..

**raider.adam** · 10-23-2012, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

Interesting..

City Planners suggest using Reading Viaduct cut - an old industrial railway tunnel - to get transit riders from Schuylkill to the Delaware | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

Sort fo a funny openign line "What if Philadelphians could take bus rapid transit from the Schuylkill River to the Delaware River, traveling part of the way beneath the surface in a former industrial railway tunnel – the defunct Reading Viaduct cut?"

I mean, we do currently have an underground way to get from the Schuykill to the Delaware.

Originally Posted by eldondre

The city remains interested in some transit use. The.planners seemed well aware this cut provided added utility. Be aware the greenies were out in force...and went so far as to suggest transit would be better off on the surface with the cut being used for a park. The annoying thing about the central district meetings is the number of organizations rather than people.if you support transit I'd encourage you to show up Thursday. I remain convinced transit will only make sense if they open the bus route to other routes like the 32,38, & 48.

Odd I would have assumed the reverse is true... parks above ground and transit underneath. But what do I know.

**eldondre** · 10-23-2012, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by TLP

Our group was gung-ho about fixing City Hall/15th Station, and that took up a huge chuck of the budget. ($120M/$165M in play money) We eventually set aside our leftover budget for the planning/environmental studies for the City Branch.

we fully funded the city branch BRT Phase I since at $75 million it bought a lot more transit benefit than the city hall renovation project at $120 million. we partially funded city hall at $60 million.

adam, excellent way to put it, as bizarre as it seems, that was exactly the position they took. yes goodman, they're serious.

**Brian616** · 10-23-2012, 10:57 AM

Wait...how would this work? Is somebody going to tunnel under Spring Garden St?

**mixiboi** · 10-23-2012, 11:11 AM

Brian the tunnel is already there(Not at Spring Garden), just never got used....

Eldondre, you can't partially fund city hall..its all or nothing...

**kidphilly** · 10-23-2012, 01:00 PM

So is BRT that much cheaper than say Light Rail or even heavy rail if the ROW already exists

I am all for using this as some form of dedicated PT though - would be a huge improvment IMHO and could extend to Girard along the Park as well in some incarnation

to me though this would have to have some seemless connection to the BSL (and also PATCO and the MFL)

**OffenseTaken** · 10-23-2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by John Goodman

Are the underground park people serious?

I keep trying to ignore it but they won't shut up... There is no way the actually think that's a good idea

"Soaring and submersive"

"I love the wind in my face too; it’s the yin and the yang, the times the wind isn’t in your face makes the times it is lovable"

**raider.adam** · 10-23-2012, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by kidphilly

So is BRT that much cheaper than say Light Rail or even heavy rail if the ROW already exists

I am all for using this as some form of dedicated PT though - would be a huge improvment IMHO and could extend to Girard along the Park as well in some incarnation

to me though this would have to have some seemless connection to the BSL (and also PATCO and the MFL)

Yes Bus Rapid Transit would be significantly cheaper. All you need is a bus. Could even hang cables and do electric trolley buses if you have concerns over hybrid combustion engines.

**luchobucho** · 10-23-2012, 01:22 PM

For a neat brt route checkout Pittsburgh's east end busway which used a former depressed rail ROW. Not a tunnel but still neat.

**eldondre** · 10-23-2012, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

Brian the tunnel is already there(Not at Spring Garden), just never got used....

Eldondre, you can't partially fund city hall..its all or nothing...

I beg your pardon, we certainly did. It means the money should come from somewhere else. And what's worse, $120 million doesn't actually fix everything, it just improves it. bad project. the real purposes of the excercise was to determine priorities.

**kidphilly** · 10-23-2012, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Yes Bus Rapid Transit would be significantly cheaper. All you need is a bus. Could even hang cables and do electric trolley buses if you have concerns over hybrid combustion engines.

Thanks! What about operating costs?

Also how far does the cut go (is the Eastern porting the current BSL spur?)

**seanl** · 10-23-2012, 03:39 PM

anybody interested in the BRT in the cut should go to the next meeting on Thursday from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. at the Liberty View Ballroom at Independence Visitors Center.

City Planners suggest using Reading Viaduct cut - an old industrial railway tunnel - to get transit riders from Schuylkill to the Delaware | PlanPhilly: Planning Philadelphia's Future

**thoth** · 10-24-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by OffenseTaken

"Soaring and submersive"

"I love the wind in my face too; it’s the yin and the yang, the times the wind isn’t in your face makes the times it is lovable"

Oh yeah...here come the CHUD

But seriously, as much as I love CHUD references, I'm astounded this underground park project (NEXT TO AN ACTIVE RAIL LINE) is still getting pushed as a thing anyone actually wants. BRT is sort of interesting, what would the tie in to the BSL look like? Cause without easy and free interchange, I'd call it about as useful as the 15.

**BarryG** · 10-24-2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by thoth

Oh yeah...here come the CHUD

But seriously, as much as I love CHUD references, I'm astounded this underground park project (NEXT TO AN ACTIVE RAIL LINE) is still getting pushed as a thing anyone actually wants. BRT is sort of interesting, what would the tie in to the BSL look like? Cause without easy and free interchange, I'd call it about as useful as the 15.

You'd have the same transfer issue with light rail as with BRT. Under NPT SEPTA should be able to, in theory, offer free transfers between two different fare-controlled areas if they wanted to. I think a BRT with dedicated ROW has a use even without a free transfer anyway.