DVARP Public Workshop on City Transit Division Issues

**Andy Sharpe** · 09-29-2012, 07:35 PM

Hi all,

DVARP has begun to plan our next public workshop, this time on City Transit Division (subway, bus, and trolley within Philadelphia) issues. What are some of the issues we should discuss? We've already posed this question on our Facebook discussion page, but we want to open it up to Philadelphia Speakers as well. To get things started, I would say the condition of City Hall Station, night owl service on subways, buses, and trolleys, the use of articulated (accordion) buses on certain routes, and smoking at subway stations are some issues that should be discussed.

What are your thoughts? Would anyone be interested in attending?

Andy Sharpe
Communications Director
Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers
1601 Walnut St., Suite 1129
Philadelphia, PA 19102-2913
phone: 215-RAILWAY (215-724-5929)
e-mail: sharpe@dvarp.org

**Strandherd** · 09-29-2012, 11:11 PM

Night owl subway service needs to be addressed. Service doesn't necessarily need to run all night long but weekend service until 1-2am certainly makes sense.

**InYourVacancies** · 09-30-2012, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by Strandherd

Night owl subway service needs to be addressed. Service doesn't necessarily need to run all night long but weekend service until 1-2am certainly makes sense.

How often do you actually ride it? There's rarely a time where i get on and there isn't a fair number of riders.

**Fishtown Phan** · 09-30-2012, 10:59 AM

I think he is talking about actually subway service not just the bus, which given my experiences in the BSL sardine can on a Friday night might not be a bad idea/

**BarryG** · 09-30-2012, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Fishtown Phan

I think he is talking about actually subway service not just the bus, which given my experiences in the BSL sardine can on a Friday night might not be a bad idea/

I wonder what the tipping point is where adding night owl bus service is cost competitive with opening the subway.

**billy ross** · 09-30-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by BarryG

I wonder what the tipping point is where adding night owl bus service is cost competitive with opening the subway.

If stations were automated like PATCO it would bias it in favor of running the trains. I think PATCO needs 4-6 operators to run their service. That's not a lot.

**BarryG** · 09-30-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by billy ross

If stations were automated like PATCO it would bias it in favor of running the trains. I think PATCO needs 4-6 operators to run their service. That's not a lot.

I don't like the idea of SEPTA stations with no personnel.

**Strandherd** · 09-30-2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by InYourVacancies

How often do you actually ride it? There's rarely a time where i get on and there isn't a fair number of riders.

Daily.

I've used the night owl buses at all hours and the number of riders seems to taper off M-Th after ~2am. Weekends closer to 3. I'm sure SEPTA would balk at extending subway service to those points but an additional hour or two would be helpful.

**Brian616** · 10-01-2012, 11:02 AM

How about breaking up overly long bus routes? I'm thinking of the 40 and 64 (they both go essentially from the Delaware to way up in Fairmount Park), but I'm sure others qualify.

**Volanova** · 10-01-2012, 01:26 PM

Definitely cleaning up City Hall station. Improving security on trains with more police foot patrols would be a plus (removing some from rush hour commando duty in Suburban and Market East and putting them on a few trains wouldn't hurt). Also, providing BRT to places like West Chester would be great. If there's not going to be a train or trolley, there should be another option that doesn't take over an hour to get from 69th Street to downtown WC.

The aforementioned late night subway service would be great, as well. At least have it so that the last trains arriving/departing at/from City Hall and 15th Street coincide with the last regional rail departures.

**Sean** · 10-01-2012, 02:15 PM

Some discussion on how the city in winter months turns the concourse between suburban station and city hall into an impromptu homeless shelter, which makes navigating that portion as a commuter difficult, especially after the PM rush. The area is also not cleaned after they leave. I understand that homelessness aside this is an issue of tunnel ownership between SEPTA and the city though.

**thoth** · 10-01-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Brian616

How about breaking up overly long bus routes? I'm thinking of the 40 and 64 (they both go essentially from the Delaware to way up in Fairmount Park), but I'm sure others qualify.

The 64 is basically the only good link between West Philly and the neighborhoods in South Philly that aren't immediately adjacent to the BSL. I don't even think of Parkside to the river being a ridiculously long route comparatively speaking. Route 23, anyone?

**Volanova** · 10-01-2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Some discussion on how the city in winter months turns the concourse between suburban station and city hall into an impromptu homeless shelter, which makes navigating that portion as a commuter difficult, especially after the PM rush. The area is also not cleaned after they leave. I understand that homelessness aside this is an issue of tunnel ownership between SEPTA and the city though.

I agree. Safety and cleanliness in the concourse is of paramount concern. It being utilized as a shelter by Center City's homeless population keeps it from being either safe or clean. Now that you mention it overrides all the concerns that I previously mentioned, although it does go hand-in-hand with cleaning up City Hall Station.

**radiocolin** · 10-01-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Volanova

I agree. Safety and cleanliness in the concourse is of paramount concern. It being utilized as a shelter by Center City's homeless population keeps it from being either safe or clean. Now that you mention it overrides all the concerns that I previously mentioned, although it does go hand-in-hand with cleaning up City Hall Station.

Yes, this. Aside from all of those issues, it's just embarrassing that the central hub where the city's trains, subways and trolleys all meet is so awful and disgusting.

Let's not even get into how it's a vast empty canyon with lots of blind curves and awful florescent lighting.

**Andy Sharpe** · 10-01-2012, 08:20 PM

Thanks for all your great feedback! It sounds like City Hall Station, the homeless population in the underground Center City concourse, night owl subway/bus/trolley service, and breaking up long bus routes are all subjects that we should devote some time to.

Now for the $64 million question: Would any of you be interested in attending this workshop?

**luchobucho** · 10-01-2012, 10:42 PM

I'd go!

**InYourVacancies** · 10-02-2012, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Strandherd

Daily.

I've used the night owl buses at all hours and the number of riders seems to taper off M-Th after ~2am. Weekends closer to 3. I'm sure SEPTA would balk at extending subway service to those points but an additional hour or two would be helpful.

I mis-read your post, my mistake. I wouldn't mind seeing the subway hours get extended, especially on weekends.

**MetalDeth81** · 10-02-2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Andy Sharpe

Would any of you be interested in attending this workshop?

I'd be down

**Volanova** · 10-02-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Andy Sharpe

Thanks for all your great feedback! It sounds like City Hall Station, the homeless population in the underground Center City concourse, night owl subway/bus/trolley service, and breaking up long bus routes are all subjects that we should devote some time to.

Now for the $64 million question: Would any of you be interested in attending this workshop?

Certainly! Especially if we could get some reps from SEPTA's City Division there to field questions. Have a date/time/location in mind yet?

**Volanova** · 10-02-2012, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by radiocolin

Yes, this. Aside from all of those issues, it's just embarrassing that the central hub where the city's trains, subways and trolleys all meet is so awful and disgusting.

Let's not even get into how it's a vast empty canyon with lots of blind curves and awful florescent lighting.

Exactly. Anyone visiting the city that wants to use the BSL, MFL, or SSL are most likely going to be subjected to this place. It's just sad that it's in the condition it is in. Not to mention daily commuters and people that live and work in the area that wish to utilize it often don't because of its dank nature and safety concerns.