Market Frankford Line,

**chris123678** · 07-15-2012, 10:29 PM

Hello Everybody, I'm new to this forum.
My first thread pertains to the Market Frankford Line.
I've lived in Philadelphia for 15 years.
My Question is, do you think the el stops to frequently?
I rode the entire line yesterday,, and felt it did.
15,13,11,8,5,2. These blocks are easily walkable.
Also, some of those stations need to be removed.

**darthsinatra** · 07-15-2012, 11:06 PM

You can't get to heaven on the Frankford El cause the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford.

**annie** · 07-15-2012, 11:19 PM

And now it's stuck in my head. Thanks!

**CHIOSSO** · 07-15-2012, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by annie

And now it's stuck in my head. Thanks!

you know i love this video.

**mixiboi** · 07-15-2012, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by chris123678

Hello Everybody, I'm new to this forum.
My first thread pertains to the Market Frankford Line.
I've lived in Philadelphia for 15 years.
My Question is, do you think the el stops to frequently?
I rode the entire line yesterday,, and felt it did.
15,13,11,8,5,2. These blocks are easily walkable.
Also, some of those stations need to be removed.

When the line was built From Broad to 2nd had so many different stores and there was a need for so many station..still is...Tho it is slowed down due to this when it hits CC....

But none of them will ever be removed.

**BarryG** · 07-16-2012, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by mixiboi

When the line was built From Broad to 2nd had so many different stores and there was a need for so many station..still is...Tho it is slowed down due to this when it hits CC....

But none of them will ever be removed.

The CC portion was originally supposed to be four tracks all the way through, like it is west of Broad, with the El providing limited "express" service and trolleys on the outer tracks making the close "local" stops for all the department stores. But when they started tunneling east of Broad, they either ran out of money or the geology prevented four tracks (someone will correct me, I am sure) and the El ended up making all the "local" stops.

Even today the stops all serve a purpose, mainly due to transfers. The only real reconfiguration that might be be feasible is merging 15th and 13th Sts into one big City Hall station.

**NoComment** · 07-16-2012, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by chris123678

My Question is, do you think the el stops to frequently?

There are times that I think it stops too frequently. But then there are times that I'm feeling too lazy and I have my Transpass and I end up riding the El to hop over to the next station. Most frequently, it's between 8th and 11th when I don't feel like making the walk through the Gallery. So those frequent stops definitely serves its purpose.

**eldondre** · 07-16-2012, 08:32 AM

11th and 12th could be combined into a new 12th st station

**BarryG** · 07-16-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by eldondre

11th and 12th could be combined in a new 12th st station

There is no 12th St station. Maybe you mean 13th? It seems like moving that to 12th St would be an inconvenience for the transfer to westbound trolleys. Combining 13th & 15th would allow easy transfers to both the trolleys and the BSL.

**hammersklavier** · 07-16-2012, 09:16 AM

Barry, think about what's above the area between 13th and 15th.

I agree merging 11th and 13th is more logical than 13th and 15th. As long as you retain the paid area, the walk from 12th (essentially the far end of the existing 13th St. Station) to the trolleys would be no further than at 15th (where you have to follow the BSL platforms). Because of No Large Foundations Blocking Your Way, the fact that the concourse already links the two stations together, the lack of distance between the two stops (a train is as long as, or longer than the travel distance), and the flatness between the stops, I think such a project is easily feasible and inexpensive. It would also be nice to link the Reading Terminal atrium in and move RR-El transfers away from the Gallery as well.

That said, I would like to see 15th shifted to the east by about 100-200 feet--as far as feasible before hitting that Big Heavy Thing--to improve loading time and transfers to the BSL. That way, the front end of the train would dwell at the crosswalk and the rear right above the BSL. The 16th St. end of the platform is largely disused, anyway, and can be closed and made storage space with access walks to the entrances.

**eldondre** · 07-16-2012, 09:39 AM

hammer, wouldn't running longer trainsets also facilitate easier transfers?
16th st is underutilized mostly because of SEPTA. you should be able to enter at all times from that side.

**chris123678** · 07-16-2012, 11:40 AM

How about getting rid of 11th Street Station?
I find it such a waste of money and time for the El to stop so frequently as much as a bus.
I'll just do the current Market Street Stops
69th,Millbourne,63,60th,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,13,11 ,8,5,2
Here's my redone version.
69,63,60,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,11,5,2.
Millborune- Nobody ever uses it.

**seand** · 07-16-2012, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by chris123678

How about getting rid of 11th Street Station?
I find it such a waste of money and time for the El to stop so frequently as much as a bus.
I'll just do the current Market Street Stops
69th,Millbourne,63,60th,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,13,11 ,8,5,2
Here's my redone version.
69,63,60,56,52,46,40,34,30,15,11,5,2.
Millborune- Nobody ever uses it.

If you were to cut two 11 and Milbourne are the ones.

**chris123678** · 07-16-2012, 11:51 AM

Yeah, I think Eleventh street is entirely to close to 13. But I would keep it and elminate 13th street.

**seand** · 07-16-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by chris123678

Yeah, I think Eleventh street is entirely to close to 13. But I would keep it and elminate 13th street.

13th is required because its the end of the line of the trolleys, downstairs. Are they going to tunnel a new turnaround to 11th?

**raider.adam** · 07-16-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by seand

13th is required because its the end of the line of the trolleys, downstairs. Are they going to tunnel a new turnaround to 11th?

Which is the most convenient for Market East regional Rail?

**seand** · 07-16-2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by raider.adam

Which is the most convenient for Market East regional Rail?

11th. But they are so close and connected underground so you can walk to either easily. Actually you could probably just extend the platform connecting the two stations and call it "12th" to split the difference.

The trolley turnaround however is major piece of infrastructure they aren't moving cheaply or easily.

**raider.adam** · 07-16-2012, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by seand

11th. But they are so close and connected underground so you can walk to either easily. Actually you could probably just extend the platform connecting the two stations and call it "12th" to split the difference.

The trolley turnaround however is major piece of infrastructure they aren't moving cheaply or easily.

I'm not saying to move the turnaround, just pointing out that removing a station that probably a lot of commuters use is probably a non-starter as well.

**chris123678** · 07-16-2012, 12:34 PM

There is no need for 11th street at all. You can't connect the platform either because that makes the platforms even closer. The current situation is 15,13,11. Now you have 15,13,12?
We don't need a subway to act as bus
Despite that these stations connect to a building, people can't walk a few blocks? Or maybe have a free transfer to a bus?

**OffenseTaken** · 07-16-2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by seand

If you were to cut two 11 and Milbourne are the ones.

Millbourne is such a useless station that I imagine there must be some story behind why it even exists. I think every outbound train I've ever been on has skipped it, anyway.

Originally Posted by chris123678

Despite that these stations connect to a building, people can't walk a few blocks? Or maybe have a free transfer to a bus?

For that matter, the BSL could lose a station or two. In their day-to-day activities, people would have no problem walking from Market to Race or from Market to Walnut, and yet each of those streets has its own (underutilized) station, ridiculously close to City Hall.

I thought the free transfer was coming with the new payment system, some time in the 21st century. Was that wrong?å