Market Frankford Line,

[NickFromGtown]

when they were building it from scratch, the idea was that the SSL's would make the stops with the el making only a few stops, when the money ran out, they truncated the trolleys at juniper, and stopped the el more often. 12th st would provide more rational spacing and as hammer mentioned, would be RELATIVELY cheap but like many problems, I don't see how they could justify the expense when they still lack ada compliance at so many stations (among other problems). the benefit of closing one station, then, probably isn't worth the hassle so, as you point out, you have a setup that isn't ideal and not how'd you'd plan it, but there it is, and the cost of changing it isn't worthwhile. it makes up for the stops on the west side of market though.
cc buses are maddeningly slow. it isn't even the stops, traffic on chestnut is awful. chestnut and walnut are the last streets I'd put a bus at rush hour. and if I have any complaints about the el it's the awful headways off peak, particularly at night.

Although it has to do with the way one-ways go I'm sure, buses should not run in such close proximity to the El.

This is a bigger topic for another thread, but can't they just merge down PATCO and SEPTA? Why have two agencies? There should be one fare system and free interchange everywhere. I realize the power struggle this would create, but still.

Side note: The El does NOT have awful headways off-peak. You're just spoiled. Germantown has great transit options with two dedicated Regional Rail lines, a Regional Rail hub, easy access to the Broad Street Line (especially if you live on the east side), and plenty of buses, but it's still only once per hour off-peak for Regional Rail.

[eldondre]

Although it has to do with the way one-ways go I'm sure, buses should not run in such close proximity to the El.

This is a bigger topic for another thread, but can't they just merge down PATCO and SEPTA? Why have two agencies? There should be one fare system and free interchange everywhere. I realize the power struggle this would create, but still.

Side note: The El does NOT have awful headways off-peak. You're just spoiled. Germantown has great transit options with two dedicated Regional Rail lines, a Regional Rail hub, easy access to the Broad Street Line (especially if you live on the east side), and plenty of buses, but it's still only once per hour off-peak for Regional Rail.

ok, the el headways are bad. they're so bad, germantown is awful. I can often walk home faster than catching the el and transferring to the subway saturday nights. I agree, DRPA should pay septa to run patco under the SEPTA banner...or they should run PATCO themselves under the SEPTA banner. either way, customers shouldn't know the difference.

[tsarstruck]

Right on cue, City Paper's front page story is about Milbourne: Millbourne Identity | Philadelphia City Paper | 07/26/2012

[nonlinearedits]

Believe me, buses are a hell of a lot slower than the el. And you never have to wait long for the el.

True that!

Aside from rush hour... every time I take the el west in the morning for every one train going west, 3 go by east and the other way around on the return trip.

[CenterCityGuy]

I agree with this.

In center city the stops should be 15th, 8th and Penns landing

In west philly it should be 30th, 40th, 52nd, 63rd, and 69th street

[NoComment]

I agree with this.

In center city the stops should be 15th, 8th and Penns landing

In west philly it should be 30th, 40th, 52nd, 63rd, and 69th street

You'd still need 5th so that SEPTA can scam tourists at that stop. I still get a good laugh when I enter the entrance at 5th going towards Frankford - there's sign still there that reads "To Penn's Landing and Frankford..." I guess SEPTA wants to sucker tourists into taking the $2 ride 3 blocks away to 2nd.

[BarryG]

I agree with this.

In center city the stops should be 15th, 8th and Penns landing

In west philly it should be 30th, 40th, 52nd, 63rd, and 69th street

Yeah who goes to market east station or reading terminal market?

[CenterCityGuy]

Yeah who goes to market east station or reading terminal market?

you can walk to reading terminal from 15th and to market east from 8th

[NoComment]

you can walk to reading terminal from 15th and to market east from 8th

Yes, but with a Transpass, I occasionally ride from 8th to 11th, not to mention other 1 station rides on the El/BSL because sometimes, I'm just too lazy to walk 2-3 blocks

[loveisnoise]

That's about as convenient as a gayborhood hooker that only accepts danish krone as payment.

You just knocked out old city, transfers at 11th street, reading terminal market, the convention center, etc.

Thank g-d city planners didn't work off their own personal conveniences like some of you do. Marsha marsha marsha.

I agree with this.

In center city the stops should be 15th, 8th and Penns landing

In west philly it should be 30th, 40th, 52nd, 63rd, and 69th street

[NickFromGtown]

you can walk to reading terminal from 15th and to market east from 8th

They call it rapid transit for a reason. The marginal cost of having a few more stops directly at connections makes sense given how long walking takes. These are stations, not transit lines we are talking about here.

[raider.adam]

They call it rapid transit for a reason. The marginal cost of having a few more stops directly at connections makes sense given how long walking takes. These are stations, not transit lines we are talking about here.

Bingo. As eldondre has said multiple times before, the utility of a useful high volume stop is more important than shaving two minutes off a trip time.

[Brian616]

Bingo. As eldondre has said multiple times before, the utility of a useful high volume stop is more important than shaving two minutes off a trip time.

Which is why an El stop at 20th St still gets brought up constantly.

How about a similar discussion for the BSL? I think a Catharine/Christian St. station would do well.

[OffenseTaken]

I agree with this.

In center city the stops should be 15th, 8th and Penns landing

In west philly it should be 30th, 40th, 52nd, 63rd, and 69th street

City Hall to 40th/Market is about two miles as the crow flies, and five minutes by train. City Hall to 2nd/Spring Garden is about two miles as the crow flies, and seven minutes by train. So you could eliminate 13th, 11th and 5th, and the most you'd be saving is two minutes (and probably less, since there wouldn't be a huge gap where the train could reach the speeds that it does from City Hall to 30th).

Do we really want to rush trains through the busiest, most well-travelled, most visited part of town so that you can get to Kensington two minutes faster?

[spa25]

Also.. what about 34th st station.. super crowded in the morning and afternoon.. there is a LUCY stop right on the corner of 34th and Market used by many who work in UCity..

[Naveen]

City Hall to 40th/Market is about two miles as the crow flies, and five minutes by train. City Hall to 2nd/Spring Garden is about two miles as the crow flies, and seven minutes by train. So you could eliminate 13th, 11th and 5th, and the most you'd be saving is two minutes (and probably less, since there wouldn't be a huge gap where the train could reach the speeds that it does from City Hall to 30th).

Do we really want to rush trains through the busiest, most well-travelled, most visited part of town so that you can get to Kensington two minutes faster?

Totally agree with this. The frequency of stops in CC/Market East is one the few plusses we have over a lot of other transit systems (that I'm familiar with).

And although there a lot of neighborhoods that we'd all like to see revitalized (or even grow past their former best), CC/Market East still has a need for more density and building up. Good transit can only foster that.

[nonlinearedits]

Anyone else endure that super ****ty fiat fight over the guy stepping on another guys foot ordeal this morning that made you late for work?


Message was Sent from my Outdated iPhone using Tapatalk

[New2Fishtown]

Does anyone know any history behind why the otherwise short and easy ped connection between Market East and the 11th St MFL stop is so frequently locked? It seems that the only thing making it this way is that the space between the two stations (where the Cinnabon is) is technically part of the gallery, and so it shuts down before and after mall hours. Placing a pull down grate along the east wall seems like a relatively easy way to keep the gallery closed off from foot traffic when it isn't open while preserving the ability to access the 11th St MFL station underground as someone coming from the RR or from the headhouse entrance of Reading Terminal. When it's open, it's one of those great "look at our integrated multimodal system" moments for philadelphia, one of the few places where i feel like we're showing our stuff and making it easy for visitors. when it's closed, you're left with people literally being able to see one station from the other through glass doors and wondering why they aren't allowed to move from one to another, meaning people either give up or end up going up to the surface and then having to find an entrance along market. I'm curious if anyone on this forum knows of any efforts to keep the connection open longer, or if there's any specific contact at septa where i could direct the question. Thanks.

[Nytecat]

The obvious solution would be for the Gallery to transfer the little used mall space west of 11th street to either Market East Station or the Convention Center. The Gallery's new gates would come down right at the Popeye's.